What is the Value of My Law Firm? With Serena Amlie, CFA (Ep.13)

When you’re deeply involved in the day-to-day operations of managing a law firm, you might not often stop to consider the firm’s actual market value. But knowing this value is crucial, whether you’re planning for a partnership buy-in, thinking about a future sale, or preparing for retirement. In this detailed guide, we delve into expert insights from Serena Amlie, a business valuation expert at Comstock Advisors, as shared on our latest episode of The Lawyer Millionaire Podcast, “How Much is a Law Firm Worth?”

Valuing a law firm is a nuanced process impacted by numerous factors, unique from other business valuations due to the personal reputations of the attorneys involved, client loyalty, and the dependence on key revenue-generating personnel. Serena Amlie explains that getting an accurate valuation involves assessing cash flow, considering partner retirements, and ensuring fairness in value distribution among partners.

Reasons for a Law Firm Valuation

Law firm owners might seek a business valuation for various reasons:

– Estate and gift tax evaluations

– Divorce litigation

– Partner Buy In

– Selling a Practice

– General succession planning

These evaluations are essential not only for internal management but for securing the future stability of the firm.

Methods of Valuation

Serena discusses two primary valuation methods:

1. **Discounted Cash Flow Method:** This approach considers the expected future cash flows of the firm, adjusting them for risk and the time value of money.

2. **Market Approach:** Typically used during M&A, this method involves comparing the firm to similar companies that have recently been sold, establishing a ballpark valuation based on these multiples.

Challenges in Valuing Law Firms

Valuing a law firm offers unique challenges. Client relationships are often personalized, making client retention a critical factor post-transition. Further, high employee turnover can destabilize practice value, impacting overall firm assessment.

Maximizing Law Firm Value

To enhance firm value, investing in top talent and retaining key personnel is crucial. Additionally, diversifying revenue sources can make the firm more attractive to potential buyers or successors.

When Should I Get a Valuation?

A common query among law firm owners is about the timing of valuation. Serena suggests starting the process at least five years before any major business decision, such as retirement or selling the firm. This timeframe allows for strategic improvements and alignment with market conditions.

Understanding and enhancing your law firm’s value doesn’t have to be a daunting task. With advice from financial planners like us who understand and specialize in serving law firm owners, you can secure a prosperous future for yourself and your firm. Remember to consider a formal valuation an investment in your firm’s future, ensuring that when the time comes for major decisions, you are well prepared.

If you’re considering a valuation for your law firm or simply want to learn more about maximizing your practice’s financial health, listen to our full discussion with Serena Amlie on The Lawyer Millionaire Podcast. Don’t leave the future to chance—secure your firm’s value today!

Connect With Darren Wurz:

About Our Guest:

Serena is a Senior Associate in ComStock Advisors’ Cincinnati office and has performed hundreds of valuations of businesses ranging in size from under $1.0 million in revenues to over $0.5 billion. She assists business owners in determining the value of their company for purposes including succession planning, mergers and acquisitions, employee stock ownership plan implementation and annual updates, estate and gift tax, shareholder disputes, divorce litigation, corporate planning, and appraisal reviews. Highlights of Serena’s valuation industry experience include manufacturing, marketing and branding, architecture and engineering, food and beverage, and construction. Serena is a Chartered Financial Analyst ® and a member of the ESOP Association, the American Society of Appraisers, and the Covington Business Council. She teaches a monthly financial literacy course to high school students at Covington Classical Academy. Serena earned a Bachelor of Business Administration in Finance from Xavier University.

Transcript:

Intro / Outro [00:00:03]:
We are on a mission to help lawyers and law firm owners maximize wealth and achieve financial independence. Welcome to the Lawyer Millionaire with Darren Wuertz from Wuertz Financial Services. In this podcast, we will help you build wealth, minimize your taxes, and plan for retirement with money management strategies designed for the legal profession. Join us in this journey where we help you manage your money so you can make the most of your future. Start feeling confident in knowing you are well prepared for retirement and on track to financial independence. Now onto the show.

Patrice Sikora [00:00:41]:
There are any number of reasons to determine the value of your law firm, but how do you do that? Darren Wurz has a guest who can help. Serena Amlie is no stranger to the task, with experience and valuation that spans several industries. She is a CFA member of the ESop association, the American Society of Appraisers, and the Covington Business Council. And Darren, she also teaches financial literacy to high school students.

Darren Wurz [00:01:09]:
Absolutely. Thanks, Patrice, for that introduction. Yeah, we’re very excited to have here Serena Amlie with Comstock Advisors. We’ve been talking a little bit lately about succession planning for law firms, and I just met Serena a few months ago through the Covington Business Council, and it was the first time I had met somebody in a networking group who does business valuations, and I was super excited to talk to her and to have her on the show. So welcome to the show, Serena.

Serena Amlie [00:01:39]:
Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be here.

Darren Wurz [00:01:41]:
We’re very excited that you’re here as well. So before we dive into some of our questions here, business valuation, and you are a chartered financial analyst, so tell us a little bit more about what that means and what you do for your clients.

Serena Amlie [00:01:58]:
Sure. So I am a manager at Comstock Advisors. We are a full service business valuation firm. We have clients all over the US. Typically, we’re working with business owners, attorneys and then other advisors to business owners, ultimately to determine the value of a closely held business or an interest in a closely held business. Typically, people come to us for valuations for a pretty broad range of reasons. Some of the most common would be estate and gift tax evaluations, divorce litigation, and shareholder disputes. When an interest in a closely held business is being contested, we do work with a lot of employee stock ownership plans.

Serena Amlie [00:02:46]:
That’s a big part of our business as well. And then just general succession planning, consulting and evaluating potential sales. Again, anything you know related to the value of a closely held business or an interest in one. So that’s kind of the gist.

Darren Wurz [00:03:03]:
Very cool. And law firms are often those closely held businesses, you know, either a sole proprietorship where you have one attorney who’s practicing as a solo, or a small firm. And so, you know, that fits right in there with a lot of what you mentioned there. Now, Serena, not every kid wakes up and says themselves, I think I’m going to be a business valuation expert when I get older. What got you interested in this?

Serena Amlie [00:03:33]:
Sure. So I went to school for finance, and I thought I was going to be in wealth management. I interned at a wealth management firm in college. It was a small firm in Cincinnati. Really loved it. Loved the culture of the firm. But through that and talking to some of my professors at school, ultimately decided that working more company side, as opposed to with individuals, might be a little more up my alley. So Comstock was actually my first job out of college.

Serena Amlie [00:04:09]:
And you, you know, I think when I first took it, understanding what business valuation was, was of a hypothetical concept until I actually, you know, started to do it, but just found it so fascinating. I mean, you’re learning about so many different industries and talking to business owners about often the businesses that they started or at least have been working in for. For a long time, and it’s. It’s just a really, really neat line of business.

Darren Wurz [00:04:36]:
Yeah, that’s cool. That’s very fascinating. So, Serena, let’s pretend that I’m a law firm owner, and why should I get a valuation done? What kinds of things would that be helpful, for?

Serena Amlie [00:04:49]:
Sure. So when it comes to law firms specifically, typically, the firm is getting valued for one of two reasons. The first is, you know, when partners are buying in or leaving the firm and being cashed out. Buy sell provisions for the partnership. For the partnership structure. Excuse me. Within law firms can vary. Sometimes the buy in cash out price is simply the partner’s percentage of the company’s book value.

Serena Amlie [00:05:18]:
In that scenario, the partner isn’t really buying into their pro rata portion of the value of the company. It’s more of a metric to buy into the profits for the period of time that individual remains a partner. So when they sell, they’re going to get cashed out at their pro rata portion of book value as well. So if the market value of the firm were to have increased or declined from the time they bought in, they’re not necessarily going to benefit or lose money on that change in market value. However, another way that the buy sell provisions sometimes can be written is that the partner buys in and is cashed out at the fair market value of their interest, which is determined by a third party appraiser. So that’s often where we come in under this scenario. And, you know, under the scenario, the partner would benefit from the increase in the value of the firm over the time that they remain partner. So that’s one reason.

Serena Amlie [00:06:16]:
And then the second is if the firm’s being purchased. So typically with law firms, that involves the merger of two firms. So we would work for either the acquiring firm or the firm being acquired to assist in negotiations and make sure that the deal is fair and makes sense from a value perspective.

Darren Wurz [00:06:37]:
Okay, yeah, that definitely makes sense. Let’s say I’m a solo practitioner. I have my own business, and I have an associate who started working for me and I’m planning on handing the business off to him or her, but they’re going to buy the practice from me. Would evaluation make sense in that kind of a scenario as well?

Serena Amlie [00:06:59]:
Certainly. I mean, not all law firms are created equally with any law firm. Something kind of unique to law firms is the client relationships with some industries. Your clients are loyal to the firm as a whole. The legal industry is one where your clients have a relationship and of loyalty to specific attorneys. So in that situation, really understanding, are all of these clients going to be transferred? What’s the risk of them going elsewhere? Because this particular attorney is getting ready to retire, really getting into the nitty gritty of that and making sure that, you know, if I’m working for the sole practitioner that’s selling my business, really understanding how that’s going to impact value, because again, that is very specific to law firms is going to make that really important for them to get a formal valuation done.

Darren Wurz [00:08:03]:
Yeah, absolutely. I often tell people selling a law firm is not like selling a McDonald’s franchise. It’s a much different kind of business. And for the reasons that you mentioned, your clients and their loyalty to you in particular, and your relationship with them, and that’s what makes it so challenging to transition to the next owner. So let’s go down that trail a little bit and talk more about maybe some of the other ways in which a law firm valuation is different from other businesses.

Serena Amlie [00:08:42]:
Sure. So I think staying on that same topic of the client relationships with a law firm, your people are your biggest asset. So when your people are your biggest asset, understanding how to retain those people, it’s no secret that turnover is an issue in this industry, in all industries. Really understanding how the law firm specifically is retaining those people. What do our employment agreements look like? What do our non competes look like? Non solicits. Because again, like I said, law firms are not created equally in that way. Additionally, with some law firms, even though you may have ten to 15 attorneys, you may have one, two, three big hitters that are bringing in a large portion of firm revenue. And again, those key people understanding how to keep them, if there are ways to start diversifying your revenue sources, those are all things that for non valuation professionals, those are very hard to quantify and is really a major complication within this industry.

Serena Amlie [00:10:01]:
And again, another reason why getting a formal valuation done is important. A second, you know, relates to the market for law firms. You know, in most situations, a law firm can only be owned by attorneys. Again, not the only industry in which this is the case. You know, in some states, there are similar rules for engineering firms as well. But in the case of the legal industry, what this means is your market for potential buyers is smaller. Now, this isn’t all bad. For example, it presents a significant barrier to entry, which protects the industry from Joe Schmo starting Joe Schmo’s law practice with no legal background.

Serena Amlie [00:10:42]:
But conversely, partners aren’t going to be getting 100 emails a week from private equity firms offering it 20 times. Multiple. Again, the smaller market is something that’s difficult for non appraisers to quantify from a value perspective. But your appraisers are going to understand how to include that from a value perspective.

Darren Wurz [00:11:07]:
Yeah, that’s very interesting. You raised a lot of good points about the difficulty. And so it makes me think, when you do a valuation for someone, is it just a solid number? Here’s the number. Or is it more of a range? What does it look like often, you.

Serena Amlie [00:11:24]:
Know, especially when we’re working with, you know, getting a firm, a firm merging with another firm, or, you know, maybe the partners have received an offer from, you know, a third party to purchase the firm. Typically, we do do work with a range, you know, that gives a little bit of flexibility to toggle certain things that are gonna impact evaluation. Maybe that’s the growth rate. Maybe that’s how many lawyers are expected to be joining the firm within the next few years. There are just so many things that impact the valuation. And by being able to toggle some of those things and create a range, I think it gives a little more flexibility from a negotiation standpoint. So that’s typically my preference.

Darren Wurz [00:12:17]:
Okay. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So I have two follow up questions, and I haven’t asked you this question before, but sometimes I’ll tell people, you know, give people, you know, if they’re thinking about, well, what is my law firm worth? I’ll tell them from what? Some of the stuff I’ve read, you know, maybe somewhere around two times gross revenues. Is that fairly consistent with what you see? And then my second question would be, and I think you may have already answered it, but like, what is the wisdom? Obviously law firms are all different. Like you mentioned, there’s so many nuances. Do I really need evaluation? Maybe you can speak more to that.

Serena Amlie [00:12:58]:
Sure. So, I mean you’re two times multiple comment. I mean that certainly would be within the realm of normal. But like, I mean, it can range though. I mean, we see multiples, you know, as low as one time. I mean, it really does vary by law firm. You know, this is getting a little into the nitty gritty of the valuation, but one of the common methods we use to value a law firm is the discounted cash flow method, which to kind of talk high level. The way that method works is, you know, you’re going to take projected cash flow over a period of time.

Serena Amlie [00:13:36]:
Typically we like to see at least five years, and you’re going to take those cash flow projections and discount it by a cost of capital. And, you know, the cost of capital, there are some aspects of it that kind of are what they are. You know, interest rates are involved in that beta, you know, which measures volatility relative to the overall market. You know, some of those, there’s not a whole lot of discretion needed in determining that. But there are two aspects of the cost of capital that are going to be firm specific. One is we call it a company specific risk premium. So what that is is it’s an additional premium, you know, added to that cost of capital to account for things that, you know, your standard beta, your interest rates aren’t necessarily accounting for. You know, we discussed this previously, but for example, if we’re valuing a law firm and one specific attorney is responsible for bringing in 80% of annual revenues and there aren’t necessarily adequate things keeping him or her there, that’s a substantial risks that these inputs haven’t accounted for yet and that is going to result in a lower value, all other things being equal.

Serena Amlie [00:14:50]:
Now, the converse is true too. I mean, if you have a law firm and your revenue sources are extremely diverse, you know, you’re doing a lot of kind of one time work for clients. You’re not necessarily too concerned about, you know, one or two attorneys maybe jumping ship and clients following them, because again, you’re doing kind of one time work for a lot of them that should result in a higher value. So it’s things like that that again, are not exactly black and white and aren’t necessarily reflected in the numbers, which is why those multiple multiples are going to vary some.

Darren Wurz [00:15:32]:
Absolutely. That’s very fascinating. And I imagine that the. You mentioned a firm that’s, well, that’s very diverse. Imagine the type of law firm or the type of law that’s being practiced may have something to do with that, too, like bankruptcy versus estate planning. Would that factor into all of that?

Serena Amlie [00:15:54]:
Certainly. I mean, with an estate planning firm, we see this, especially with some smaller firms. You might have one multigenerational family. I’ve seen this with a non law firm, but another professional services firm. And perhaps, you know, these attorneys are doing tons of work for this family. And, you know, that family may comprise, you know, a very large portion of revenue. I mean, even if it’s 20%, that’s considerable. And so in a line of law like that, where you do have kind of these longstanding relationships, your risk related to, you know, customer concentration or client concentration in this case is going to be much higher than, for example, a bankruptcy attorney, where, I mean, hopefully people aren’t declaring bankruptcy, you know, once a year.

Serena Amlie [00:16:45]:
So, you know, you’re doing more one time work. Again, your risk related to concentration just isn’t there in the same way.

Darren Wurz [00:16:52]:
Gotcha. Okay. So it’s kind of like, you know, the more transactional something is, perhaps then it could be more valuable that way because it’s. It’s something that has more likelihood of continuing on into the future.

Serena Amlie [00:17:05]:
Certainly. I mean, if we’re talking about that risk specifically, it’s less risky and less risky businesses. I mean, you’re going to pay a higher multiple for.

Darren Wurz [00:17:14]:
Okay, very cool. So let’s say you have a client who’s a law firm and they want to get evaluation. Where do you begin? What’s your process?

Serena Amlie [00:17:23]:
Sure. So our first. So I guess I think a good place to start with that is to talk about the two different methods we’ll typically use to value the law firm, because that kind of gets into what they’re going to need to provide us what our process looks like with them. I briefly mentioned this earlier, but a common method we use is the discounted cash flow method. Sometimes you’ll hear valuation world call it a DCF. So again, like I said, that’s going to base value on projected future cash flows. So the company is going to provide cash flow projections over a period of time. Sometimes companies have CFO’s, accountants that have prepared projections like this before, you know, have a good handle on it, but sometimes you have companies that have never put a projection together.

Serena Amlie [00:18:12]:
And if the latter is true, we, as the valuation firm, can work with them to determine kind of the key factors that impact cash flow for them, to help them ultimately provide that projection for us. And, you know, regardless of if we help them put the projection together or if they did it themselves, we’re going to really want to discuss it with management to make sure we understand. A, how were the projections compiled? B, who was involved with that process? Are they on the risky side? Are they on the conservative side? And really what’s super important is what are the key factors that could cause the company to greatly underperform or outperform them. After we get a feel for the projections that we’ve been given, which is typically three to five years, we’re also going to talk to management to determine what a normal year of cash flow looks like. Because that normal or terminal year, as we call it in, valuation, is ultimately what’s going to be used to determine the terminal value of the firm. So after that projection period is done, what value is left over? Because, for example, if we’re doing evaluation of a firm with ten attorneys, they added five last year, your growth rates are much larger recently than they’re going to be in those out years. So understanding what’s a reasonable long term growth expectation, things like that is going to be important. And then again, like we’ve mentioned before, we’re going to work to develop a cost of capital that’s ultimately going to be used to discount those cash flows and then capitalize that terminal cash flow to determine terminal value.

Serena Amlie [00:20:04]:
So when it comes to working with management, we discussed this previously, but that company specific risk premium, really working with management to understand what are these companies, what are your strengths? Where do your risks lie? How do you differ from other firms in your industry? You know, how are you retaining employees, those things that are really specific to this firm, to make sure we’re appropriately accounting for those things in the way of the cost of capital.

Darren Wurz [00:20:38]:
Okay.

Serena Amlie [00:20:38]:
The second method we’re going to use, and something we’ll also work with management on, is the merger and acquisition method. So the way this method works is the valuation firm is going to screen for transactions that have hopefully occurred somewhat recently involving similar companies to the firm you’re valuing. Again, like I said, ideally these transactions occurred pretty recently, involved companies of similar size to your subject company, and most importantly, offer similar services. So we’re going to screen multiple databases which report the multiples that these transactions occurred at. For example, let’s say a law firm was purchased for 12 million. Did you know, on average 10 million in revenue? We would say that the transaction occurred at a 1.2 times revenue multiple. Now, again, what’s crucial on behalf of the valuation firm is evaluating how your subject company is different or similar from the companies included in these transactions. Because ultimately, like we discussed previously, if your company is riskier, that multiple is going to be lower.

Serena Amlie [00:21:50]:
And if it’s less risky, that multiple is going to be higher. And management knows their firm better than we’re ever going to know it. So really working with management to understand the nitty gritty kind of your swot analysis, if you want to talk about what we learned in business school, is crucial here to really take the multiples from those databases and see how they really should apply to the firm you’re valuing.

Darren Wurz [00:22:20]:
Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, I guess there is a market here, right? Law firms are being bought and sold? Yeah. Okay. I have clients who doubt this, but it does happen for sure. So let’s say I am thinking about retiring and selling my firm. You know, what kinds of things can I be doing or should I be doing in the lead up to that to improve the value of my business so that I can maybe sell it.

Serena Amlie [00:22:51]:
For top dollar again, I sound like a broken record here because we’ve talked about key personnel risk so many times. But really, with a law firm, I mean, your people are your value here. So as much as you can stay abreast on kind of what’s going on in the industry as far as retention burnout, you know, turnover is concerned, if you can really, you know, find a way to kind of a, keep your people, b, keep them happy, and c, kind of have a Runway of people ready, you know, people in place to kind of, you know, take over maybe five years, ten years, as your, you know, key attorneys start to retire, that’s going to be a surefire way to do that, to keep value, to increase value, that really is going to be huge and then kind of related to that and something we have already talked about. But as much as you can diversify your revenue sources, that’s also going to be, I mean, it’s easier said than done, of course, but, you know, the more diverse your revenue sources are, um, essentially the more valuable that revenue is. So I think those kind of are the two that come to mind.

Darren Wurz [00:24:08]:
Okay. Yeah, absolutely. That’s great. So people definitely investing in the people, making sure that they are going to stick around through the transition. That’s great advice because, you know, if the people stick around, that’s going to make that transition in that succession plan that much easier, certainly. So let’s say I am approaching retirement. What would be the optimal timeframe of when I should get evaluation done?

Serena Amlie [00:24:38]:
I’d say earlier is always better, I think, especially in this industry. But all people, they may have some idea in their mind of what their company’s worth, and they’ve kind of been planning around that. Who knows, if, you know, their friend on the golf course kind of mentioned it to them. Who knows where they heard it, but it may or may not be correct. And so, I mean, there’s a lot of planning that goes into retirement. And I think the, the sooner you can get a feel for, okay, a, what is, what am I going to realistically get for this company? And b, how long is it going to take me to get that? I think that, you know, as early as you can in a reasonable, you know, with a reasonable timeframe, that’s always going to be better.

Darren Wurz [00:25:30]:
So maybe, I mean, yeah, that’s great advice. And I preach that, you know, especially with the retirement planning, start early. You know, start as early as you can. For sure. For sure. If we were to put some numbers to it, would maybe five years out be a good timeframe to start thinking about that? Okay.

Serena Amlie [00:25:49]:
Certainly as a starting point, I mean, that would be great. I think if everyone did that, you know, retirement planning would be a whole heck of a lot easier. I think, you know, that would be five years out is great.

Darren Wurz [00:26:01]:
Okay. Okay. Very cool. And you know, my other question here. So let’s say I do the valuation process. I have a range of what I think my firm can sell for. What’s, what are the odds? You know, what’s the probability here that I’m going to actually get this value for my firm?

Serena Amlie [00:26:21]:
Sure. So I think two things are kind of key here. One, with anything. If you’re doing a fire sale and trying to sell overnight, the answer to your question is low, especially given the smaller market that we talked about previously. But if you’re willing to spend a reasonable amount of time marketing the firm, your likelihood becomes pretty good. Two, there’s the saying that goes garbage in, garbage out. Well, the same is true with valuation. We’re not auditors.

Serena Amlie [00:26:53]:
We assume that the information that’s been provided to us was prepared in good faith and is a reasonable representation of the firm. We are trained somewhat to dig through that, especially the projections to evaluate. Are these crazy? Are they conservative? But ultimately, the people running the company are the ones who are knowledgeable about its key risks, strengths, weaknesses, et cetera. They’re going to know more about that than we’re ever going to be able to. So if they’re giving us good information that’s giving us, again, a reasonable indication of the nitty gritty of this firm, then the value is going to be a really good indication of market value. But again, the converse is true. If we’re not getting the full picture of a full story, which isn’t always reflected in the numbers, then there could be some disparity there.

Darren Wurz [00:27:49]:
Okay. Yeah, absolutely. I like what you said there about marketing your firm in the sense of finding a buyer. That’s very interesting. Perhaps we’ll have to talk about that sometime. Serena, we’re coming down to the end of our time here. Is there anything else you’d like to add, any final pieces of wisdom or advice that you’d like to impart to our audience?

Serena Amlie [00:28:12]:
Well, first of all, again, thank you for having me today. This has been a really great conversation. I think if I could leave with one thing, and I think we’ve probably already made it pretty clear, but valuations of law firms specifically are complicated. There are just so many aspects of them that make them complicated. Not all law firms are created equal, as we’ve talked about. So, you know, making sure you get evaluation from, you know, someone who’s qualified, someone who has, you know, history. You know, evaluating companies like this is really, really important to make sure, you know, a, you’re prepared from a cash flow perspective if you have partners that are getting ready to retire, and b, you know, to ensure that your partners are getting the value that they’re due. Because, again, really, there’s no value of the firm without them.

Darren Wurz [00:29:03]:
Absolutely. And if someone wants a qualified expert to help them, they can reach out to you. Of course, Serena. And what would be the best way for our listeners to get in touch with you?

Serena Amlie [00:29:15]:
Sure. Reaching out via email would be great. You know, if you can go to our website, comstockadvisors.com, my email is going to be there, some information on my background, etcetera. That would be. That would be the right way.

Darren Wurz [00:29:29]:
Absolutely. And we will definitely put your email and everything in the show notes. Thank you so much for joining us, Serena. It’s been great having you here.

Serena Amlie [00:29:37]:
Thanks so much, Darren.

Darren Wurz [00:29:39]:
Yeah. And if you’d like to learn more about the lawyer millionaire podcast, as well as the book or talk with me about your financial planning and succession planning, you can just head on over to thelawyermillionaire.com.

Patrice Sikora [00:29:53]:
This podcast is also called the Lawyer Millionaire. Follow it to know when new episodes are ready for you, and of course, share with colleagues and friends.

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