A law practice sale as part of your retirement plan is not only possible, it’s highly achievable, and there are several benefits that you might not know about… and we are here to show you how you can make it happen!
In part two of the Succession Planning for Law Firm Owners mini-series, Darren Wurz speaks with Jeremy E. Poock, Esq., founder and president of Senior Attorney Match, focused on designing and implementing law firm sales for attorneys who have practiced for over 30 years. Jeremy also elaborates on his experience working with buyers and sellers and gives us some incredible tips on successful succession planning.
Darren discusses:
- His story; entrepreneurship, the unspoken pressure to pursue law and finding his niche
- Common obstacles to selling a practice and how you can overcome them
- How to structure the sale of your law firm and why selling to a growing practice makes a lot of sense
- Best and worst case scenarios for selling a law practice and the biggest mistake you’ll want to avoid
- Current trends in the law firm sales market
- And more
Resources:
Connect with Darren Wurz:
- dpw@wurzfinancialservices.com
- 30 Minute Chat With Darren
- Wurz Financial Services
- The Lawyer Millionaire: The Complete Guide for Attorneys on Maximizing Wealth, Minimizing Taxes, and Retiring with Confidence by Darren Wurz
- LinkedIn: Darren P. Wurz
- LinkedIn: The Lawyer Millionaire
- Twitter: Wurz Financial Services
Connect with Jeremy:
About our guest:
Jeremy E. Poock, Esq. is the founder and President of Senior Attorney Match, Inc., which designs and implements law firm sales for attorneys who have practiced for 30+ years.
Jeremy founded Senior Attorney Match in 2013, having practiced as a Massachusetts business law attorney since 2000 with a focus on representing buyers and sellers in the sales of small Businesses.
Recognizing a market need for Senior Attorneys to sell their well-established law practices and the constant need for Growing Law Firms to generate new clients and referral sources, Jeremy founded Senior Attorney Match to address both of those needs.
Transcript:
Darren Wurz [00:00:41]:
Selling your law practice as part of your retirement or exit plan is not just a possibility. It’s a great idea and you can do it. And we’re here to show you how. I’m Darren Wurz. Thanks for joining us today, and welcome to part two of our series on succession planning for law firm owners. In our last episode, we discussed why you need a succession plan and shared some common pathways for selling a practice. And today we’re going to dive in even more to some of those pathways. Helping us out today is Jeremy Pook, Esquire. He’s the founder and president of Senior Attorney Match, focused on designing and implementing law firm sales for attorneys who have practiced for over 30 years. Jeremy is here to tell us all about his experience working with buyers and sellers and give us some tips on successful succession planning. Welcome to the show, Jeremy.
Jeremy Poock [00:01:38]:
Darren, thanks so much. Looking forward to the conversation.
Darren Wurz [00:01:41]:
Absolutely. And so tell us a little bit about yourself. You’re the president and founder of Senior Attorney Match. You’re also an attorney yourself. What led you to start this company? And give us a little bit about your background and what you guys do.
Jeremy Poock [00:01:55]:
Great. Darren, thanks so much. So I’m an entrepreneur. I’ll start with that. And so in a lot of respects, probably should have gone stage right to business school instead of stage left to law school. Right, Had A history major at Brandeis University in the Boston area and figured, all right, what am I going to do with that? Let’s go to law school. My father went to law school. My paternal grandfather went to law school. So there it was, marching off to law school. But always in the back of my mind thinking, there’s got to be a business out there, some business concept that would satisfy that entrepreneurial just drawing inside of me. And that led me, or really drew me to use that word again, towards working with business brokers in New England. Right. As a business lawyer in Massachusetts, I would help them what I would tell them is I’d help them get to the closing table and paper their deals. But as I was going to their meetings and this was a while ago, Darren, like, this is in the early 2000s, right. Even at that time, they were like laser focused. The business brokers that is laser focused on baby boomers. They saw then, as the boomers were at that point, like in their 50s, heading into their 60s, that they were going to be selling their businesses. And that’s really when the idea went up in my mind. I was like, wow, these business brokers, they’re not brokering law firm sales. There are a lot of baby boomer attorneys out there. Business brokers make a heck of a lot more than I do when I look at the closing sheet. And why not give it a shot and see if I can start a business helping to broker law firm sales.
Darren Wurz [00:03:23]:
Very cool. So you saw an opportunity where there weren’t a lot of business brokers doing this for law firm owners, and you decided to go into that arena. And I’m curious, what did you find? What was your experience like? What did you find that was different?
Jeremy Poock [00:03:38]:
Well, I found out they were pretty smart for not doing it, but I’ll get to that because why were they smart for not doing it? And we’re going to talk about this more during today’s podcast. Is that your typical business sale has consideration paid at a closing table? And what I pretty quickly learned as I started exploring the sales of law practices is that buyers, yes, they want to purchase a law firm, but they are we as a breed, as lawyers, are pretty risk averse. So when buyers are asked to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe millions of dollars at a closing table, I immediately Darren, got pushback from buyers of like, wait a second, we don’t know if the clients of the selling attorney are actually even going to continue as clients. So how can you expect us to pay on something where we don’t know if the clients are going to continue? So, again, as an entrepreneur, I figured, all right, we can’t just accept that as the no. Like, there’s a business, there’s an opportunity here. But I think why a lot of traditional business brokers are not in this marketplace is because unlike the sales of other professional practices, like dentists, for example, and even doctors, I mean, so many doctors are already part of hospitals, but we see a lot of dental sales. But there could be real consideration for a dental practice, which is really not the case, at least right now for most law firm sales.
Darren Wurz [00:05:03]:
Yeah, absolutely. I think about my experience with doctors and dentists and really you see your dentist for like five minutes at the end of your visit. So there’s not as much of that personal relationship there. But doctor physician practices have that issue too. I mean, a lot of people like their doctor. And so I think that’s a common issue across the board. And you’re definitely right. Risk. That adds to the whole risk thing because that maybe drives a lower multiple in terms of what the business is worth. Would you do that?
Jeremy Poock [00:05:35]:
Yeah, great point. So let’s just first make it clear to any of the listeners that are thinking here like jeez, am I just like, is this guy talking about that I don’t get any value out of my law practice? Okay, so let’s make it clear there is value that comes out of law practices. But to answer your question, at least at this point, and maybe now is a good time to talk about what we call law firm sales 1.0. Okay. In law firm sales 1.0, the typical structure of the payment on what the value of a law practice is it’s based upon an earn out as compared to an actual multiple. Because the value proposition from a selling attorney or a selling law firm is that they have a number. Typically a very large number can be hundreds, thousands sometimes, or not as many as that. But let’s just say at least in the hundreds of clients and they have scores of also referral sources. And the value proposition from a buyer is to say buyer will pay a percentage of the revenues that continue coming into the acquiring firm from the selling attorneys, clients and referral sources during a negotiated period of time. So we’re not seeing actual multiples yet, Darren, but what I am seeing in the marketplace, having now done this since 2013, is that we’re often seeing or we’re trying to get for our clients a one times of gross revenues. So a typical buyer will say, sure we will pay 20% of those gross revenues coming in from clients and referral sources payable over a five year period of time. That’s not all deals, but that’s pretty typical arrangement in what we call law firm sales 1.0, where there’s not typically not money paid at a closing and the deals are structured as earn outs. And to say it a little bit differently, they’re structured as seller financing because most banks are not willing yet to lend on these types of sales. They are willing to come in to offer a credit line and too few lawyers because we’re so risk averse. Again as this sort of breed that I mentioned before. But I think the smarter buyers out there and Darren, I’m curious your thoughts on this. From a financial planning best use of your money standpoint, why spend your own money to take over a lawyer’s practice? Start up that 20%. Do all the things that need to be done and we can talk about what I just meant by that, but all things that need to be done to acquire practice versus march down to your bank, take out a credit line, six figure credit line. Not a huge amount, but take out that amount and start investing it into this seller’s practice that you have just acquired. Darren, too few buyers do that. They just figure that it’s just going to work. They’re plug and play.
Darren Wurz [00:08:19]:
Yeah, that’s a great point. I think banks, maybe it’s something that banks are just not as well versed in, and they see it as just a much more risky proposition to lend money for the purchase of a law firm. But in my mind, it really is not any more or less risky than, let’s say you wanted to buy a local restaurant and you wanted to turn that into a business. There’s a bank that’s going to lend you money for that. And I feel like banks would be more willing to lend you money for that than to lend you money for purchasing a law practice. But in my mind, the risk is the same. And actually, if you structure it right, the risk is less. I think, in buying a law practice, if you do the right things, what.
Jeremy Poock [00:09:01]:
You just said is super important. And I think it’s why bankers do resist, by the way, is that if you do the right things, okay, because it’s really important, and this is what happens in most deals, and this is good news. What happens in most deals is the sellers continue practicing for a little while, okay? Most lawyers, they actually enjoy being lawyers. Like the most popular thing, it’s funny, we’ve developed a number of infographics over the last, like, two years, and one of them is a family feud, one we just couldn’t resist, okay? Because we ask our would be clients, we’re like, what is the thing? If we had a magic wand, what is the number one thing that you would want us to take? Just get off of your table, off of your desk, out of your world. What is it? And it’s like, imagine, like, the family field. Like, ding, ding, ding. I hit that buzzer, right? It’s managing the office. Okay? It’s not like, I don’t want to practice anymore. I hate my clients. I hate counsel on the other side. These are some of, like, the two, three, four, or five types of answers. Number one answer, manage the practice. How does this connect back to banks getting involved in? The risk for banks is that if a bank knows that the seller is going to stay on to transition the clients, that’s less risk. We won’t get into it now, but there are quirky SBA banking regulations out there that limit the amount of time that a seller can actually stay on. So that’s good for other industries, like your restaurant, one where you want I think the concept there is you want the former owner out. So the former owner is not just sticking their nose in. Let’s just say the new version of the pasta sauce right here. We need the seller’s nose in the pasta sauce because the seller is transitioning those clients over. But to your point on the limited risk of purchasing a restaurant, one area I super agree with you on is that if the buyer’s financials are good and most buyers financials are good, they’re doing well. A typical buyer, Darren they’re typically saying to me, like, look, I’ve hit a ceiling. I’m really good at bringing in business, okay? But I can only do so much if I take on a senior attorney’s practice that’s doing similar work as me, but they’re in another county or they’re just hitting a different part of the market. The bank can go off of the buyer’s financials, lend out that money. Right. And then the buyer is able to take that money and take that list that we talked about before. And by the way, Darren, like, too few buyers do this. Take that money, take that list, and then start marketing right to that list. Because most senior attorneys that we work with, that’s another question because it’s a different Family feud board. It’s like, all right, what do you do with your list? Like, the number one answer is begrudgingly. I send out a holiday card and it’s like, begrudgingly. That’s what brings in business. Like, the smart buyers will look at a list of like one, 5000 hundred, 2000. You and I’ve talked before about personal injury law attorneys that can have much higher volume. You can talk about well over 10,000 clients, and if a buyer invests in that list, that’s tremendous ROI.
Darren Wurz [00:12:08]:
Oh, absolutely. You can start engaging with those clients, get them on your mailing list, get them on your email list, start a podcast, and you’re going to see so many referrals and everything else from that. That’s a great point, for sure. All right. So as I’m thinking about succession planning and all of this, it seems to me like this is becoming more of a hot topic. Would you agree with that? Is this just me or is this more and more something people are talking about?
Jeremy Poock [00:12:40]:
It’s absolutely more and more what lawyers are thinking of as the boomers continue to age. And so when clients call us, they’re often thinking about a birthday. I’m going to be 73, going to be 62. I’m going to be 81. They’re thinking about January 1. They’re thinking about renewing their leases. Okay, so it’s on the mind of the attorneys. It’s on the mind of their associates, right? Like, if you’ve been working for somebody and you just cut the cake in the office for like, 75th birthday, you’re enjoying that cake. If you’re an associate, but you’re going home, be like, that was great cake, but I don’t know how much longer I have my job, okay? Because my 75 year old boss may actually retire at some point. And then something really interesting is happening, Darren, and I don’t know if this is going to happen in other states. I can’t rattle off all of the states, but I was recently contacted by the state of Michigan, okay. The Michigan State Bar. And as of September of 2023, the Michigan State Bar has added to their renewal, like their license renewal. Like, I’m a Massachusetts attorney. I got to put down my name my address. Do I have an Ieltsa account. Do I carry malpractice insurance. Well, what’s Michigan adding? Who’s your successor?
Darren Wurz [00:14:03]:
Smart.
Jeremy Poock [00:14:05]:
Who would be if, God forbid, that you become disabled or die, who’s going to be what they define as an interim administrator? And why is this happening? Because I think what’s happening across the country is that when lawyers do become disabled and lawyers do die, it winds up going to these state bars, and the state bars are saying, geez, we don’t want to get stuck with all these files. Why do we have to administer it? We’re going to put the burden on the bar. And I think that if more and more bars across the United States start requiring this, then it’s really going to be top of mind because it’s going to happen every single year when you’re renewing for your law license.
Darren Wurz [00:14:43]:
Yeah, absolutely. That’s something we talked about on the last episode. A lot of times you have attorneys that don’t have that succession plan in place, and I’ve seen this happen where something happens death or disability, and then there’s chaos because no one knows what to do, how to access the files, what to do with the files. And it’s really crazy in the financial world, we have to have a contingency plan, too. And really, that came out of 911 because 911 wiped out some financial firms, and the SEC and FINRA were like, okay, wait a minute. We need to make sure financial advisors have a contingency plan in place because there has to be continuity. So I’m glad that states are starting to do that, and that will really put this into the spotlight, for sure. All right, so let’s get into it a little bit more here. We mentioned risk as one of the obstacles for why attorneys maybe don’t think this is possible or don’t want to approach it. Are there other obstacles that attorneys face or that objections that you run into?
Jeremy Poock [00:15:50]:
So I just want to be clear. We’re talking about objections from a selling attorney. Like, why wouldn’t a selling attorney want to sell? So the biggest thing that we see and then there’s going to be three smaller things, okay? The biggest one, and this is just across the board, not lawyers, just anybody that’s running a small business is status quo, right? That is, if today is like yesterday and we expect tomorrow to be like today, then why make change? Okay? I mean, that’s just natural human behavior, and we all carry whatever levels of risk that we carry and manage in our lives at any given time. So I may be 76 today. I’m not 46, but today feels a heck of a lot like it did when I was 46. And I’m still getting a lot of new clients, and my revenue is higher than it’s been. So why make change? That’s a lot of your world. Aaron right. In terms of people just planning generally. So status quo is probably the biggest thing that gets in the way with senior attorneys, who we define as attorneys that have practiced more than 30 years to make change, whether to seek an internal or succession plan with lawyers from within or an external plan. Join a growing law firm. Then I want to hit these three little ones. We’ve been giving a lot of thought to this. I always wanted it to be clean as ABC, so it’s not clean, Darren. It’s BCI. Okay, so here we go. B is that they don’t want a boss just in their minds whether they do an internal transition or join a growing firm. Attorneys just have it stuck in their mind. Maybe let’s make it a little younger than 76. Let’s just say this is 68 years old, and it’s like, I don’t want a 52 year old all of a sudden telling me what to do. The C in BCI is control. If I sell within or join another firm, I’m going to lose control. I like coming into the office at 1030 in the morning. I like leaving at eight. It’s sort of the same thing corresponds with not planning to have a boss. Okay. And then there’s I, which is, this office is my identity, okay? And if that identity changes, who am I? So that reinforces status quo. And then when we talk with our clients, we’re often telling them, look, BCI, I can’t change anything really about status quo. You’ve got to get your arms around when you’re ready. Okay? But BCI, at least the B and the C, like, you’re going to have a boss. You’re going to lose control. Guess what senior attorneys have that every law firm wants and needs? C-L-I-E-N-T-S clients. Clients. It’s hugely valuable. This is the only energy source of law firms, right? The energy source of law firms is clients. And when senior attorneys come to growing firms, which is what we promote, is essentially what we do here at Senior Attorney Matches. We help our clients to sell their practices by joining growing law firms. They come to those firms with clients, and those firm are, for the most part, laying out the red carpet. And they’re like, okay, you want to show up at eleven in the morning? Cool. You want to be in I’m in the Northeast. You want to be in Florida January and February. But you’re going to be available by zoom. You’re checking your email. You can take phone calls and respond to text. Hang out in Fort Lauderdale for those two months. Just make sure you’re transitioning your clients over to us.
Darren Wurz [00:19:26]:
Yeah, having a boss, that’s something that Patrice mentioned on the last episode. And I was thinking about that because I am my own boss, and I can’t imagine working for somebody else. I guess that is a concern. So how do you overcome that? I mean, is that just something you have to spell out very clearly what the roles and responsibilities and expectations are. How do you help ease that concern?
Jeremy Poock [00:19:54]:
Sure. So first, of course, contractually, right, like in the agreements, most of my clients from the get go, we start telling them that joining a growing law firm is the way to go. Automatically, there’s this knee jerk of, wow, I’m going to have to bill 1800 billable hours. You know, I’m like, no, right, it’s in the contract, okay, you get paid. It’d be better if there was a different phrase than I’ll share with you now that everyone in the legal industry is familiar with is eat what you kill. Okay. Meaning that the deals are structured often, darren there can be a draw. But by and large, okay, the growing firms that welcome in, these senior attorneys say you’re your own boss, right. If you bring in the work and you work on it, we’ll pay you this percentage. You bring in the work and we work on it. We’ll pay you a lesser percentage. If we bring in the work and you senior attorney do the work, you get that percentage. So there’s no boss, no expectation from the get go. Because again, what the growing firm is benefiting by is those clients that are coming in. And this is an interesting point that I’ll share with you to an observation. I’m curious to know if you see this too, but what I’m regularly seeing in the marketplace is the generations below the boomers are not nearly as good at business development as the boomers were. I mean, there’s always, there always are good biz dev people out there, right? They’re just among every generation. It’s not like the entire X generation that I’m in or the Z generation that’s coming in now into law firm that they’re bound to be amazing rainmakers there. But by and large, firms need clients. And because senior attorneys have plenty of them, that’s why there’s typically not the boss issue. Now, I will say this one’s important. It’s not necessarily boss, but it’s culture. Okay. And they sort of do walk hand in hand because what we wind up seeing is not so much that a senior attorney is told you got to put up 1800 billable hours, but like, this is the billing system that we use. This is the we, we use this platform for, for our CRM. It’s like, this is how we do it here versus the way you used to do it. That causes friction.
Darren Wurz [00:22:07]:
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so let’s kind of get into some of the mechanics here. You mentioned growing a joining law firm as kind of the preferred method. Give us a little bit of why that works for what you’re doing and some of the advantages there as compared to maybe other strategies.
Jeremy Poock [00:22:25]:
Yeah, sure. So we talk a lot about synergy value. Okay. So what is it that growing law firms? What do they want and need? They want and need, first and foremost, new clients. They want and need talented lawyers. They want and need those talented lawyers to hopefully have good reputations and they want and need ways to market to their services, to new clients, right? So the synergy value there is that’s on the want and need side of what we just talked about, what growing firms want and need, what do senior attorneys bring to the table? They bring to the table we’ve talked a lot about already, the clients. But what we haven’t talked about yet is the workforce that the senior attorneys bring, right? They bring talented, trained lawyers that have been there, done that, at least as of now in this part of the 2020s when talented workers are at a.
Darren Wurz [00:23:23]:
Real premium and maybe even paralegals and support.
Jeremy Poock [00:23:29]:
Some deals. We’ve done. Darren, they’ve been like, oh yeah, literally, this happened. We wanted the senior attorney. We did this deal because of the office manager. Okay? Because the office manager is rocks. All right? She was a huge, huge part. At the end of the day, senior attorney had all the clients. Right, but she is hugely valuable to that deal. So, yes, absolutely. The para staff and then just the expertise that they’re bringing with them. And then we talk about a lot the fact that the senior attorneys, that they have not leveraged the digital content and you mentioned it before, what if the senior attorney who has all this amazing institutional knowledge in his or her mind, what if they did join an internal podcast at the firms that they’re at? What if they did start pumping out YouTube videos? What if they did finally start that blog or e newsletter article that they never had time to do? These are hugely valuable to growing firms. And I just want to also just make sure that we get this, share this point, too. Growing firms we’re recommending what we’re seeing are growing in their own verticals, right? So if you’re a firm that’s doing trust in estates and real estate and corporate law, these tend to travel well together. Okay, then a senior attorney that does that’s in those same practice areas, right, and brings clients, staff, expertise, digital marketing capabilities, that’s that real synergy value. And that’s why what we come down to when it comes to why is it a growing firm, it’s because they want and need what senior attorneys have.
Darren Wurz [00:25:14]:
Yeah, absolutely. So you have a ready buyer that wants a lot of those assets, not just the clients, but the potential for growth. That’s very cool. Okay. Now, earlier in the show, you mentioned law firm sales 1.0. What’s 2.0?
Jeremy Poock [00:25:31]:
Yeah. So 2.0 is here and it’s going to only grow more. And what 2.0 is when there’s going to be real consideration paid at a closing table. Okay, that’s not to say that there isn’t some consideration paid at closing tables, but by and large, we’ve talked about so far in today’s podcast is that the consideration is structured as an earnout in 2.0. There’ll be real consideration paid at a closing table. Why? Because there will be real data analytics that will support that those clients are coming to the given firm because of the reputation of the firm and not the personal goodwill of a given attorney. So just as an example, let’s say that attorney John Smith is an amazing trust in a state’s attorney in whatever state, okay? He knows the marketplace. People know him. He’s great at, let’s say, estate taxes, to the extent that the state where he practices still maintains an estate tax. And people come to John Smith. John Smith. John Smith, right. But if John Smith isn’t there, okay, the clients may not continue to show up. What if Attorney Smith practiced that at the Northeast Trusted Estate Center? Okay? And now almost all states, I think all states in the United States now, Darren, allow for trade names. Trade names were not permitted in certain states for a number of years. I think as of 2020, every state now permits trade names. So let’s just say now people are coming to the Northeast Trust and Estate Center. And that Northeast Trust and Estate Center. They market like crazy. Like, you go on Google and you’re a young family and you live somewhere in the Northeast. You’re like, best estate planner near me. Well, guess what’s at the top of Google northeast Trust and Estate Center right now? Northeast Trust and Estate Center, they want to sell their practice. They’re able to go to buyers. And importantly, like we talked about before, the bank. And the bank is going to say, okay, show us how these clients are coming in. Oh, wow, you’re getting this number of clients that are coming off of Google. You’re getting this many that are coming in from these Facebook groups. You’re getting this many that are actually even watching your crazy TikTok videos. Maybe not even that crazy, but this is how the clients are coming in, okay? The fact that Smith and owners may be retiring, we don’t really care because the data shows that clients are coming here because of the brand name. When that happens, that’s when we’re going to be in 2.0, and there’s going to be real consideration paid at closing tables.
Darren Wurz [00:28:01]:
I love that. And that echoes so much of what we’ve talked about on the show and what I’ve encouraged attorneys to think about. And really, it’s about thinking more as a business owner. Like, let’s think how if you were just a regular business owners, how would you approach this? And you got to bring those practices, bring those best business practices into the legal world in terms of marketing and branding and brand building. Yeah. That is really incredible. Now, I want to ask you another question here. As we’re coming closer to our time, from the buyer’s perspective, what are some things in your experience. That buyers need to be aware of or need to think about when they’re purchasing a firm. What advice do you have there that you can give to buyers?
Jeremy Poock [00:28:48]:
Great. Thanks so much. So let me first emphasize what I’ll call the hidden market. Okay? What the hidden market means is that so many buyers that is, firms that want to grow, they’re in growth mode. They assume that there’s friendly senior attorney competitor who has a couple of 40 or 50 somethings that are at their office, that those 40 or 50 somethings are going to take over the senior attorney’s practice. Right. Going back to family feud. Let’s just give a sound on that one, right? No, the 40 and 50 something, like we talked about before, they only want a job. They were hired by the senior attorney when the senior attorney was bringing in the business, okay? So they only want a job. So for buyers that are listening, Darren, and for your clients and I’m often saying this when buyers contact me, there is a significant hidden market out there for buyers should be prepared, willing, able to knock on the door of a senior attorney and be like, you’re amazing. And so are, let’s say, Deb and Joan that have worked with you for 20 years. They’re amazing, too. But are Deb and Joan really going to take over your practice? Because we would love to take all of you in here. Okay? And that is a huge opportunity that too few buyers, they just don’t recognize that that senior attorney with the Deb and Joan in my example, would actually be terrific prospects because Deb and Joan just want a job. So, first, that’s that first point. Hidden market. Second one is it’s really important for buyers, in my opinion, and we talked about this before, is to stay in your lane. Okay? It’s really tempting to be like, we’re killing just go back to the trusted estates and real estate and corporate. Right? Let’s set another way. That’s a transactional practice, right? And it’d be really easy for that transactional practice to be like, jeez, if we could just pick up litigation. We can pick up litigation by taking over the senior attorney’s practice. Right. I recommend against it, because when we’re working with senior attorneys, they want to go to firms where what we call a deep bench, right? It’s not our phrase. That’s just a phrase. Right. So you want to go where there’s a deep bench. So it’s very tempting for buyers to be like, we’ll just take over the senior attorney’s practice because they’re going to automatically give us the additional lane that we want. And my strong advice to buyers is, no, stay in your lane. Make your buildings stronger, taller, okay. Because you’re already trained in those areas. For as tempting as it is, stay in your lane. And then the last one, darren and I’ve been working with a business coach for a number of years, I’ll give a shout out to him, Scott Lori. And we talk a lot about empathy, okay? Because these are not turnkey. And that when you bring a senior attorney into your practice, there’s got to be a lot of empathy. We work now, and it took me a long time to realize that we needed to do this. And we work with a law practice integration consultant, okay? Because what happened was, as we were bringing people to the altar, great, they’re happy. It’s the wedding. And whatnot day two was like, what the hell are we doing now? So empathizing with the fact that this is somebody that here’s a metaphor that we use often, is that the senior attorney that’s run his or her own practice, they basically have self elected themselves as class president of their high school, their little etbc high school, right. For 20 plus years. And now they’re joining a brand new high school. They’re in their 60s or 70s. Frankly, they’re scared, okay. And it’s tough to start working with new colleagues. So for the buyers out there, my additional suggestion is have some empathy. Please don’t just shove down the senior attorney’s throat. Like, this is the way we do it here. And to empathize with them and the need for a practice integration consultant is huge.
Darren Wurz [00:32:41]:
That’s fantastic stuff. And I have so many more questions. I think we’ll have to maybe do a part two of this episode. This is really great, Jeremy.
Jeremy Poock [00:32:50]:
Thank you.
Darren Wurz [00:32:51]:
Now, lastly, in maybe 30 seconds or less sure. Tell me what this is something we ask all our guests. We’re all about planning for our futures and making those dreams come true. What’s your ultimate dream future? What are you aiming for in terms of your own retirement? What are you thinking there?
Jeremy Poock [00:33:07]:
Yeah, sure. Thanks so much. So a big goal of mine is to grow senior Attorney Match. We really want to be national leaders, thought leaders, in this space of sales of law practices. And what I’d foresee for a potential exit strategy for Senior Attorney match is that there are larger exit strategy companies out there that I think that as we go national and we have clients across the country can recognize the value of the model that we’re developing. And I could see a sale to a larger exit strategy company / consulting company.
Darren Wurz [00:33:41]:
I love it. That’s very cool. Well, thanks again, Jeremy. And lastly, can you let our audience know how they can find you and get in touch with you if they have questions?
Jeremy Poock [00:33:50]:
Absolutely, senior Attorneymatch.com that’s the best way. We have a contact tab, a calendly link right there, and would welcome fielding questions people have about how do you sell and purchase the law practice.
Darren Wurz [00:34:02]:
Great. Very cool. And I want to thank all of our listeners today for joining us for this episode of The Lawyer Millionaire. Don’t miss our next episode, part three in our succession planning series, where we’ll be talking with Tom Lenfesty with Law Practice Exchange, and learning even more. If you enjoyed today’s episode, please like share, subscribe and give us a five star review on Apple or Spotify. Also, check out TheLawyermillionaire.com, where you can access free resources and webinars for law firm owners, schedule a consultation with me, or even get your own copy of my book, The Lawyer Millionaire. Now take what you learned and go make those dreams a reality. I’m your host, Darren Wurz, and I’ll see you next time.