Innovate to Thrive: New Models in Legal Business with Allen Rodriguez

Are you tired of the traditional law firm model holding you back from true financial liberation? In this eye-opening episode of The Lawyer Millionaire Podcast, we dive deep with Allen Rodriguez, a visionary legal product development strategist, who shares groundbreaking strategies to transform your law firm into a well-oiled machine, generating wealth while increasing access to justice. Discover Allen’s insider insights on marrying cutting-edge technology with savvy business practices to catapult your firm’s efficiency and profitability.

In this episode, Darren Wurz goes head-to-head with Allen Rodriguez to unravel the secrets behind a successful and prosperous modern law firm. Allen brings his extensive experience from managing traditional bar associations to innovating at LegalZoom and now drives a seismic shift in the legal industry by promoting unprecedented access to justice and profitability. Arizona’s progressive legislation sets the stage, but Allen’s insightful strategies are the game-changer your firm needs.

Listeners of this episode will learn:

1. The Impact of Rule Changes in Arizona – Explore how Arizona’s elimination of rule 5.4 enables non-attorney ownership, access to alternative financing, and paves the way for a new era in law firm business models.

2. The Subscription Model – Unpack how a subscription-based legal service can transform your firm’s revenue stream, ensuring predictable cash flow and deepened client relationships.

3. Leveraging Products and AI – Discover the power of treating legal services as products and how to employ AI and software tools for commoditized legal tasks to optimize your firm’s efficiency.

4. Strategic Growth and Pricing – Learn the importance of providing strategic value over administrative tasks and how to shift towards lucrative pricing models that reward high-impact work.

5. Innovation and Access to Justice – Be inspired by Allen’s mission to solve the ‘4 billion person access to justice problem’ and how innovations in the legal sector can contribute to a more just world.

Building a Sustainable Legal Practice:

Allen Rodriguez, with over two decades of experience in the legal sector and a trailblazer in legal innovation, shares his insights on how law firms can cultivate financial prosperity by transitioning from traditional billing to subscription-based services. This model not only promises a steady revenue stream but also opens the doors to accessible legal services for millions.

Strategic Innovation in Legal Services:

Arizona’s game-changing elimination of Rule 5.4 provides a new blueprint for law firms. By partnering lawyers with savvy business professionals and harnessing technology, law firms can scale their operations and deliver high-quality legal services more efficiently. Subscription services provide a framework for this forward-thinking business model, offering predictability for both lawyers and clients.

The Benefits of a Subscription Model:

Throughout the episode, our host Darren Wurz unearths the myriad of benefits behind the subscription methodology. Allen Rodriguez cites proactive legal partnership, ongoing support, and long-term client relationships as just some of the subscription model advantages, demonstrating that consistency in service can lead to law firms becoming indispensable assets to their clients’ businesses.

Leveraging Technology for Growth:

A recurring theme is the pivotal role of technology in modern legal practice. AI tools that handle administrative tasks and streamline communication are not just time-savers but cost-effective solutions that allow lawyers to focus on delivering strategic, high-value services. Singular Law’s use of AI for customer relationship management showcases a prime example of how efficiency and client satisfaction can be achieved concurrently.

Join the Movement Toward Access to Justice:

As an advocate for universal access to justice, he encourages legal professionals to embrace change and collaborate across tech and legal sectors. By adopting innovative business models and focusing on strategic service delivery, law firms can be at the forefront of the push for accessible legal services.

Conclusion:

As Darren Wurz thanks Allen Rodriguez and our listeners, he also extends an invitation to join the next episode and reminds the audience to visit thelawyermillionaire.com for more information and resources. This episode is a must-share for any law firm owner aiming for financial growth while contributing to a more just world.

Don’t just listen, act. Share this podcast with your network, subscribe for more insights into financial growth within the legal industry, and leave us a review. By doing so, you’re not only securing your financial future but also becoming a part of a movement that values both profit and access to justice. Join us again at The Lawyer Millionaire podcast, where financial acumen meets innovative legal practice

Resources:

Wurz Financial Services

Connect with Darren Wurz:

Connect with Allen Rodriguez:

Twitter: Allen Rodriguez
Linkedin: Allen Rodriguez
Website: ONE400

About our guest:

Allen Rodriguez is a national speaker, product development strategist and legal innovator who has been serving the legal industry for 19 years. Over the course of his career, Allen has built a reputation for creating innovative legal services products as well as developing highly effective law firm business models and marketing strategies. Allen is a valued speaker on the topics of legal services product development, design thinking in law and future of law issues. He has provided consulting and engineering services for such companies as McKinsey & Co., Fastcase, Gavelytics, LexisNexis, and Littler.

Prior to founding ONE400, Allen was the Director of Attorney Services at LegalZoom. While there, his work contributed to a substantial portion of overall revenue at the company and helped LegalZoom move from a provider of “do-it-yourself” legal services to a comprehensive legal solutions provider, incorporating attorney-fulfilled work across all U.S. jurisdictions. Allen’s immersion in the legal industry began running operations at the Los Angeles County Bar Association’s Lawyer Referral Service. While there, his marketing knowledge, operational developments, and leadership helped generate millions of dollars in revenue for the association.

Transcript:

Darren Wurz [00:00:16]:
What if you could double your law firm’s revenue while working less and delivering better client experiences? Sounds like a dream, right? Well, the secret lies in the place where law meets innovation. Welcome, friends, to another episode of the Lawyer Millionaire podcast, a show dedicated to enabling law firm owners to create extraordinary wealth and secure their financial legacy. I’m your host, Darren Wurz, financial planner for law firm owners. Today, we’re unearthing these hidden paths to success with a true pioneer in the legal industry. Our guest today is Allen Rodriguez. Allen is a legal product development strategist.

Darren Wurz [00:01:07]:
Who’s been serving the legal industry for over 20 years. He was the director of attorney services at legalzoom, where he helped the company move from a provider of do it yourself legal services to comprehensive legal solutions working with attorneys. And he’s here to share all kinds of great advice and insight with us. Allen, welcome to the show.

Allen Rodriguez [00:01:31]:
Hey, thanks, Darren. I’m really excited to be here on your podcast. I think it’s really great content. Looking forward to our conversation.

Darren Wurz [00:01:37]:
Absolutely. I’m excited that you’re here as well, podcasting from your amazing office in your backyard. You were telling me about that. That’s really, really cool. Well, let’s get into some of the work that you do. I find it really fascinating. How would you, first of all, describe yourself in your mission? Because I just. I’ve looked at the work you do, and it’s so well aligned, and I want to give you the opportunity to describe it in your own words.

Allen Rodriguez [00:02:05]:
I appreciate it. So, the work I do, it’s all focused on the legal industry. So I’m a business professional in legal industry, like you. I’m not a lawyer, but I’ve been serving the industry for over 20 years, and I’ve got my hands in a couple of projects. And so three of them. One, I own a law firm, singular law group, in Arizona. Under the new Arizona ABS rules, they allow non attorney ownership. So I threw my hat in the ring, and I own a law firm there.

Allen Rodriguez [00:02:32]:
I also help law firms and legal tech companies build products to better serve consumers and small businesses. That agency is ONE400. There, we’re a full suite of services, product development, marketing, web development, technology adoption, so that law firms can automate more and then finally, I’m also a SaaS owner. I own a legal services product called Simple Client. I acquired that business last year, rebranded it, and redeployed it to allow law firms to again, automate more of their work, make it easier for consumers to engage them and like your mission to help them create wealth. For me, one slight modification. I think if we can help more lawyers earn more money, but doing it in a way that improves access to justice, then we create a win win for everybody. And so that’s what really drives all the projects that I work on, is an underlying desire to help increase access to justice.

Darren Wurz [00:03:35]:
Yeah, I sense that in seeing the projects you’ve been involved in, the theme that I see running through all of that is helping more people have access to legal, to services, maybe populations or groups of people who traditionally haven’t been able to avail themselves of legal help.

Allen Rodriguez [00:03:55]:
Yeah, 100%. And in fact, in our country, that’s 80 million people. Right. So that’s when you think of it from a business perspective. Right. That’s a lot of potential customers out there. And so if we can crack that nut, if we can create that business model, build that product, right, that services the needs of those people, and let’s say we can get $5 out of each and every one of them, that’s a business worth running, in my opinion. So.

Allen Rodriguez [00:04:21]:
So, you know, from, it’s not all just, you know, touchy feely.

Darren Wurz [00:04:26]:
Right.

Allen Rodriguez [00:04:26]:
Like, not a desire to, like, you know, feel good about it, but, like, we can make money doing it too.

Darren Wurz [00:04:32]:
Right, right. Great. Great point there. Well, tell us about your background and how you became involved in the legal industry in the first place.

Darren Wurz [00:04:41]:
Yeah.

Allen Rodriguez [00:04:41]:
So right out of college, I had law school dreams, like many people. And my first job right out of college was at the La County Bar association. And it was a great first gig because they also offered a scholarship to law school, and it gave me a chance to work in the industry and meet lawyers. And I met some really great lawyers, and they gave me this bit of advice when I was young. They were like, hey, before you go to law school, maybe you should come shadow me at my office. Come, come work for me for a week.

Darren Wurz [00:05:11]:
Right.

Allen Rodriguez [00:05:11]:
You know, and so you can get a real sense for what the job requires, and then you can make a more informed decision about going into law school. And these were guys that were sincere. They were like, hey, look, I love being a lawyer, but I didn’t always. Or some of them were like, you know, the career is often sold, like, on tv, like these shows law and order or suits, you know, stuff like that. Right. The job isn’t really like that. So. So I did.

Allen Rodriguez [00:05:41]:
And it turns out, like, some of the things I observed there were, like alcoholism, drug use, high divorce rates, all the. It was like, a very stressful job. It’s a job that requires perfection. I mean, detailed administrative work. And it was less suits, right? Less law and order and more like just admin. And I realized, like, hey, you know what? I think I enjoy the business of law better. And so that set me on a different trajectory. I ran the La county bar lawyer referral and information service.

Allen Rodriguez [00:06:12]:
This was in the late nineties, early two thousands, when technology was just coming on the scene. And I had an opportunity to just use email or use, like, operational workflow improvements and change the way the referral service was doing business. And we went from, like, half a million in revenue to 2 million in revenue.

Darren Wurz [00:06:32]:
Right.

Allen Rodriguez [00:06:32]:
And that really kind of inspired me. I was like, hey, you know, we can just tweak systems and processes and use technology, and we can make a lot more money doing it. And so from there, I got recruited into legalzoom. Was able to do a lot of the same, this time creating products for law firms. Caught the bug. Just kind of seeing the impact that this has on people, small businesses, consumers, and the money that people can make. I mean, legal zoom is valued at $2 billion now, right? So approximately 2 billion. So I caught the bug, formed my own agency, ONE400, where I said, you know what? Lawyers have always had the ability to do these sorts of things.

Allen Rodriguez [00:07:13]:
They’ve just not been shown how or they’ve chosen not to.

Darren Wurz [00:07:17]:
Right.

Allen Rodriguez [00:07:18]:
And I said, you know, that’s going to be my business. That’s going to be my stake in the ground, and I’m going to be part of teaching them how. So being on podcasts like this is like part of that mission, right?

Darren Wurz [00:07:31]:
Yeah. Yeah. So, Allen, you’re not the typical law firm owner, and some people may find that controversial, but tell us why. Tell us about this rule change in Arizona, how your business model works and why it’s a great idea.

Allen Rodriguez [00:07:50]:
Yeah, it’s a great question, and you’re spot on. Lots of lawyers hate this concept, but I think what the state of Arizona has decided, they were like, hey, look, we’ve got this access to justice problem that isn’t being solved by our current legal industry.

Allen Rodriguez [00:08:04]:
Right? We have 1.3 million lawyers in America. That’s approximately one lawyer for every 330 people. But yet 80 million still go either underserved or no service. At all. And so the thought was, like, could we align a law firm with. Give them business acumen, right. Like, give them the business leadership, technological resources that they need to scale and change their business models, and then always have lawyers kind of driving the fulfillment. And so that’s.

Allen Rodriguez [00:08:35]:
That’s the idea behind abs. So I have a partner. His name is Scott Griffiths. He’s a very talented lawyer. I stay in my lane. I, you know, I don’t. I’m not qualified to give legal advice. I’m not interested in giving anybody legal advice.

Allen Rodriguez [00:08:48]:
What I’m interested in is making sure that Scott is only working strategically and not wasting his time on admin or follow up or, like, all that stuff. Right. And so that’s. That’s why it works. You know, that’s. That’s the argument. Like, yeah, lawyers had thought, like, well, if you align with business people, you know, the. The ethics may become questionable because, like, they’re only chasing profit.

Allen Rodriguez [00:09:17]:
And I don’t agree. What I’m chasing is happy customers. I’m chasing better business. And if I do anything shady or unethical, like, that’s just bad for business.

Darren Wurz [00:09:27]:
Yeah. You know, and you could say that there are. There are already law firms, you know, in the minority, of course, but that operate in that way, maybe, and that shouldn’t. So that’s not going to be a new thing coming to the legal industry just by maybe bridging law and business together.

Allen Rodriguez [00:09:47]:
Yeah, that’s it. And so, like, you know how this works at singular law? Like, we have this thing that we just do. It’s like lawyer on demand, you know, and you can get access to a lawyer for $99. I mean, essentially, this is just selling a consultation, say, right. Like, lots of firms do this, so this isn’t very innovative, but the way we market it and we sell it, lawyer on demand, we use technology to allow somebody to just buy the thing, you know, online, kind of like ecom. And so Scott is just, you know, focused on delivering, like, high value, quality legal advice, and. But, like, Scott didn’t have it in his mind to think that way, because when he became a lawyer, you know, he just learned he got a job at a law firm, and they don’t do it that way. And the legal industry does not reward innovation in a lot of ways.

Allen Rodriguez [00:10:34]:
You know, it’s just like, you ask the partner, like, hey, why do you guys do it this way? It’s like, hey, shut up. This is the way we’ve always done it, right? Like, lawyers are taught to look to the past for their answers. I mean, that’s. It’s precedent. Sorry, decisis. And. But, like, innovation happens in the future, so there’s kind of a disconnect there. And I think that’s what I try to bring to, you know, the.

Allen Rodriguez [00:10:56]:
To. To the relationship in the law firm, and that’s kind of why it’s working now.

Darren Wurz [00:11:00]:
Yeah.

Darren Wurz [00:11:01]:
So this is more like, you know, you’re not replacing the lawyer. This is more like a collaboration with lawyers to. To empower the legal industry to be more effective. Would you agree with that?

Allen Rodriguez [00:11:12]:
That 100%, That’s exactly it. The other thing Arizona did that. That is, um, different than others. Arizona and Utah are the two states that have done similar things. Arizona has eliminated rule 5.4. So, getting back to this wealth creation theme of your podcast, when a law firm, in a traditional sense, without the change in these rules, a law firm can’t share fees with non lawyers. And because of that, you can really only grow a law firm by debt driven.

Allen Rodriguez [00:11:49]:
Right? So, like, you take out a loan for capital, things of that nature, because you can’t. You can’t raise capital, you can’t get a co investor. But now, with the elimination of rule 5.4 in Arizona, like, you could hire a marketing agency to work on performance so you don’t come out of pocket, or you can get investment, or you can get these kind of forgivable loans, these kind of creative financing that every other business outside of the legal industry has access to. They all have access to this. So it really kind of changes the way you can grow your firm.

Darren Wurz [00:12:24]:
Interesting.

Allen Rodriguez [00:12:24]:
By leveraging, like, being credit driven rather than debt driven.

Darren Wurz [00:12:29]:
Right.

Allen Rodriguez [00:12:29]:
Or capital. Excuse me? Capital driven rather than debt driven.

Darren Wurz [00:12:32]:
Right. Right. Interesting stuff. Well, let’s get into some more law firm innovations, and I want to talk about legal subscriptions, an idea that’s gaining some momentum in the industry. Can you walk us through the benefits of implementing a subscription model for law firm clients?

Allen Rodriguez [00:12:51]:
Yeah. Happy to. The primary benefit is recurring revenue.

Darren Wurz [00:12:55]:
Right.

Allen Rodriguez [00:12:55]:
So, when you think about, like, a typical law firm revenue model is like, you do some work, and then you bill your time against that work. So you trade money for, or you trade time for money, right. Under that model, what happens is, like, law firms have terrible cash flow because they go out, they prospect, they sell, they get, like, $2,500 deposit, $5,000 deposit, whatever retainer. Then they work the rest of the month to bill against that retainer. They get their time into some system, and then they send an invoice out, and then they collect their money. So they’re always 30 days away from seeing any money under that model. But if you sell subscriptions or a flat fee, depending on your state, most of those fees can just go straight into your operating account immediately. And the other thing about subscriptions is you’re not trading time for money, which we obviously know has a cap, right? There’s only so many hours in a day.

Allen Rodriguez [00:13:59]:
But you’re trading value for money because most subscription plans give somebody access to limited scope of service. And if they use that scope of service or not, then, then that, that’s part of the benefit. It’s like, you know, some people are going to use all of that limited scope. Some people are just going to like having access to it if they need it. But you get 100% of those revenues, right? So the model alone just improves your cash flow, creates recurring revenue. So you’re never starting the month from zero, right. When you’re selling time every month, you start from zero, and then you work your way to $100,000 month. Right here, you’re starting with the base cohort of revenue from last month’s subscribers, minus any attrition that you might have in subsequent month.

Allen Rodriguez [00:14:54]:
So that alone, there’s many other benefits that I’m happy to talk about, but that alone should be the key takeaway that your audience walks away with and launch their subscription plan tomorrow.

Darren Wurz [00:15:04]:
Sure. Thats a great way of looking at it because cash flow, I think, is one of the biggest problems that law firms have. One of their biggest headaches, I think. And im glad you brought the flat fee model into it as well, because theyre similar in that there are different approaches to the traditional billing structure, but they make a lot of sense. One of the things I see is that they drive efficiency as well.

Allen Rodriguez [00:15:30]:
Yeah, I mean, think about it. Like, nobody wakes up in the morning and says, hey, today’s a great day to hire a lawyer, right? Like said, no one ever, right? Like instead, they experience some compelling event, and now they respond to an ad, a contact, or whatever. They go back to the lawyer. Now, the lawyer then at that moment becomes a firefighter. They’re like, and the stress, the amount of, like, you know, the demands of the client, all that stuff becomes, like, urgent on every matter because of that model.

Allen Rodriguez [00:16:02]:
And why do people do it that way? Because lawyers are expensive or people don’t, you know, think like, hey, it’s necessary to be proactive and taking care of my legal issues, that sort of thing. But when you have a subscription model, you now have, like, an opportunity, like, with no increased cost to speak with an attorney before you find yourself in a pickle.

Allen Rodriguez [00:16:26]:
Right, There’s always going to be compelling events like auto accidents, things of that nature. But, like, if you’re a small business, before you sign that contract, you can go to the lawyer, get that reviewed, and then find out if there are any red flags. So the lawyer moves from firefighter to more like fire inspector, which is more like, hey, let me walk around. Let me make sure you got some fire extinguishers in here. Everything’s looking good, right? And think about, like, just even for personally, like, that allows you to have a less stressful life and more meaningful relationships with your customers, because now they have an incentive to reach out to you proactively and want to talk to you.

Darren Wurz [00:17:06]:
Right, right. So if you’re a law firm owner who wants to create a subscription model, how do you do that in a way that’s going to be successful? How do you sell that to your clients and set it up where it’s compelling and it’s, you know, people are going to sign up for it?

Allen Rodriguez [00:17:22]:
Yeah, of course, it depends on the practice area. But let’s use. I’ll try and use, like, a small business example, right? So right now, if a small business owner experiences some issues, say a city license was rejected or a bank loan was rejected, or like some kind of compelling event, they go to a lawyer, they might be able to help them with that. $2,500. That’s the friction. There’s no ongoing relationship. You know, if you sell somebody a consultation, say you charge $150 for a consultation, or you’re meeting a small business owner, you can say, hey, look, there’s two ways to work with us. You can pay for advice as you need it.

Allen Rodriguez [00:18:05]:
It’s dollar 150. That’s what we charge. Or for dollar 99 a month, we’ll just be your proactive partner in working with your business on an ongoing basis. You can call me anytime. You can get documents reviewed, ten pages or less. So all those NDAs, all those sales agreements or the vendor contract where you’re going to take your food truck, you know, you call us, you do that, and then we’re going to also kind of help educate you to make sure that your documents are always ready to go. So when the next pandemic hits and PPP loans, you know, require this checklist of documents, you’re ready to go.

Allen Rodriguez [00:18:44]:
Right? You know, and so, like, now you become kind of a growth partner in that business, right? I think that’s one way. Another way is to just offer sufficient, like, value for what they’re paying now. On the consumer side, let’s say your divorce attorney, life after divorce, like everybody’s selling the divorce because that’s the biggest revenue generator upfront. But if you look at lifetime value after a divorce, there’s a lot of data to support that. There’s significant amount of lifetime value after divorce. And attorneys just leave that money on the table. For example, 40% of divorce seasoned widowers are going to remarry after three years. And that’s just data.

Allen Rodriguez [00:19:28]:
And so 40% of your divorce customers should be buying a prenuptial agreement from you three years after the relationship or move away cases or modifications. All this stuff, if you put somebody on a plan for like just $29 a month for the rest of their life.

Allen Rodriguez [00:19:45]:
Right? You know, but they have access to you for any kind of issue that comes up. Even if you can’t handle the matter, say it’s an accident, you refer it out, you get a referral fee. The point is, you get paid to own the relationship with that person and you get the first bite of every apple.

Darren Wurz [00:20:01]:
Right

Allen Rodriguez [00:20:01]:
Like every new legal issue that comes your way. So, yeah, it’s just aligning value with your specific audience member and your target customer and making sure that the value is commensurate with what they are. And the final thing I’ll say on it is that Americans have 1.8 legal issues per year. So, you know, even on the consumer side, there’s probably about two legal issues a year that every customer is going to need. And, and the analogy is like the triple a membership. Like, you know, you get two free tows a year right down or something.

Darren Wurz [00:20:35]:
Right.

Allen Rodriguez [00:20:36]:
Like that sort of thing. So it’s, it’s, it makes sense in a lot of ways.

Darren Wurz [00:20:40]:
Yeah, yeah. Very interesting. And that’s a big concern a lot of, you know, law firms and lawyers have about that is how do people make these things be successful? And you did a great job of elaborating on that. Speaking of the divorce thing, one thing I was thinking of that came to mind is updating your estate plan. All of those documents need to be changed, and there’s a lot that goes with that. Well, in addition to subscription models is one way to drive growth. What are some other top two or three strategies for law firm owners to focus on in today’s world to help drive sustainable growth for their firms?

Allen Rodriguez [00:21:20]:
Thinking of their services as products.

Allen Rodriguez [00:21:23]:
Right. Like commoditizing as much of the work that they do? You know, you might have to edit this one. So let me back up. Thinking of their services as products, right? And what I mean by that is by looking at all the things that you do and say, what parts of these can be commoditized and then driven by software? Because I do think the future of law is an amalgam. The future law firm is an amalgam of software and service. I’ll give you an example, again, small business example. I see attorneys charge like $2,500 for business formation all the time. I could form an LLC in California at the California secretary of state website for like $25 or something, right? And I’ll do it in 15 minutes. So why would I pay $2,500 for an attorney? I, you know, maybe I’m a sophisticated user of, or consumer of legal services, so maybe I wouldn’t.

Allen Rodriguez [00:22:22]:
But here’s why I go to an attorney. One, I want to first make sure I’m forming the right entity for my specific needs. So that just advice, you know, just being able to buy that is extremely valuable for me. Number two, what I really need from the attorney is an operating agreement. Like the LLC stuff. They could just outsource. Like, there’s tons of companies that’ll do this white label for law firms so they can pass the savings onto the consumer or the small business in this case, and then charge for the operating agreement. Why is the operating agreement, you know, important? Because when that partnership falls apart, business partnerships are just like, you know, family law divorce, right?

Allen Rodriguez [00:23:05]:
They happen very frequently. I want an experienced business attorney who’s seen how those deals fall apart, that can advise me. And recently I just formed a new business, and we went and got an operating agreement. I had never really thought about this before, but the question asked of us is like, hey, guys, if you get divorced because you both live in community property states, how are we going to handle this? And I was like, you know what? I’ve been doing this for 24 years and nobody’s ever asked me that. And that’s brilliant. Like, yes, let’s have a conversation about that. That’s why I need an attorney. So attorneys should just really focus on delivering strategic value.

Allen Rodriguez [00:23:43]:
All the other admin stuff, all the generation use AI tools, use all the software for all the commoditized work, pass those savings onto your consumer and only charge them for the high impact work.

Darren Wurz [00:23:55]:
Yeah, yeah. Great stuff. So you have an innovative, um, business model that you’ve created, and you told us a little bit about that. We talked about the subscription models. Are there other examples of innovative business models you’ve seen successfully implemented in the legal industry.

Allen Rodriguez [00:24:14]:
Um, yeah, that’s, that’s, uh, I have, um, I’m not sure how innovative they are, but I’ll, I’ll, I’ll tell you. So I think, um, in the last, like I would say ten years, since about 2008 when I was working at Legalzoom, we knew we wanted to move from a do it yourself product experience to a more comprehensive solution and work with attorneys. And so there were, at that time, I started recruiting, looking for some firms, and a couple of firms came our way and were like, hey, yeah, we know all the lawyers hate you, but we want to work with you guys. And they leverage LegalZooms like brand reach, advertising, all that sort of thing. And we were writing checks for significant amounts of money to these law firms. And these law firms went from like three lawyers to 80 in like a year and a half. So leveraging partnerships, strategic partnerships.

Allen Rodriguez [00:25:12]:
Right? Like, don’t be scared. Like, other businesses do this all the time, but in law firms there’s always this concern. Well, you know, I get the RPC, right? The rules of professional conduct is always a concern. But like, you know, how to evaluate that. You can tell if, if somebody’s, you know, kind of acting ethically and will be a good partner, I would say don’t, don’t be scared of working with the dot coms, right? Like right now, my law firm has relationship with both helloprenup.com and divorce.com dot. And you know, my lead acquisition costs are pretty negligible. Because of that, I’m able to leverage strategic partnerships to benefit my business. And so I think those firms that do that, whether it be business networking or walking into a co working facility and saying, hey, why don’t you start offering your members my small business subscription plan and we’ll give them a discount.

Allen Rodriguez [00:26:13]:
But every one of your members now has this added benefit. So go out there and kind of explore strategic partnerships as another channel. So not so innovative, right. But like law firms just don’t do it and so they should, is my point.

Darren Wurz [00:26:26]:
Right. That’s a great idea. And just trying to think outside the box. What are some new ways and avenues we can explore and work together with other people? You mentioned AI previously, and I want to touch on that. How is AI being used and adopted by law firms today? Or maybe how should it be used? Or what are some ways that law firms can start incorporating that into their business?

Allen Rodriguez [00:26:47]:
Sure. I’ll tell you how we’re using it. At singular law, we use it daily so we use it to help improve client communications. So we will take an existing template of email drip campaigns. So for example, we’ll provide somebody, a consultant, maybe they convert, maybe they don’t. But in three months, we’re going to ask every person that we’ve interacted with to refer us to a friend or family member. And so we have like a series of drip email sequences. And so sometimes chat GPT just helps us craft those or helps us improve those based on customer feedback.

Allen Rodriguez [00:27:23]:
Right. So we keep them new, fresh. That’s one way. So it helps with marketing, I would say social posts, things of that nature. The other way we use it to help summarize a lot of content quickly. So if any of our lawyers are having to review a lot of documents, chat GPT is not always great at telling the truth, but it’s always great at extracting information. And so we might pop a terms of service in there and say something like, hey, chat GPT, I want you to review this and then look for anything related to indemnification because that’s my primary concern in this topic document. Highlight it in bullet point form, tell me the page, the paragraph and everything.

Allen Rodriguez [00:28:10]:
So that way I can just laser focus on that, pop it in there seconds later, it’s like, here you go, here’s what you were looking for. And now we can put human eyes on it, like very efficiently.

Allen Rodriguez [00:28:21]:
Right? And that allows us to move more volume and kind of focus on other parts of the business the other way. Right now we’re working on, I’m actually building a product where it’s going to do outbound calls to follow up with leads. And it’s pretty crazy how far the technology’s gone in just six months. But the AI will call, it sounds like a human. It’ll make an outbound call and say, hi, Darren, you had previously indicated interest in singular law, and I was calling up to see if you’d like to be connected with somebody. And that person will. Well, maybe, but I’m kind of busy right now. I understand there’s never a convenient time for, you know, hiring a lawyer, but, like, it’ll take me five minutes.

Allen Rodriguez [00:29:10]:
Would you like for me to connect you? And when, when they say yes, then the AI will just transfer the call to my intake person and we’ll book the appointment.

Darren Wurz [00:29:18]:
That’s incredible.

Allen Rodriguez [00:29:20]:
Yeah. So there’s really like, you know, like, I think it’s just kind of imagine it and chances are there’s a solution out there.

Darren Wurz [00:29:28]:
Okay, already?

Darren Wurz [00:29:29]:
Yeah.

Darren Wurz [00:29:30]:
Great stuff. Great ideas. Well, Allen, we’re coming down to the end of our time here. This has been great, sharing some time with you and, and hearing all of your innovative ideas. A lot of great takeaways for our listeners today. I’ve got one more question for you. With everything that you’re doing, what is your millionaire mission? Meaning what is your big purpose behind everything you’re doing? I think you shared some of that before, but maybe you can elaborate a little bit more.

Allen Rodriguez [00:29:57]:
Yeah. I want to live in a world where more people have access to justice. I grew up in a community. I grew up in East LA. And in my community, your first access or your first interaction with the justice system was police like, stopping you on the street corner. And I think in a country like ours, where we have one of the most robust legal industries in the world, where we really have some of the best lawyers in the world, we have all the tools to really kind of fix this problem. Globally, it’s a 4 billion person problem. But here in America, I think if we all like regulators, law firm owners, lawyers, technologists, if we all got together, put our brains together, I bet we can solve this problem and create that millionaire law firm too, in the process.

Darren Wurz [00:30:44]:
Very inspiring. Well, Allen, if people want to learn more about you, where can they go?

Allen Rodriguez [00:30:50]:
ONE400.Com. That’s o n e Four zero zero .com. If you’d also like to take a look at some of the other business projects I’m working on. There’s singular law, right? It’s the name of the firm, singular law group in Tempe, Arizona. And then finally, simple client.com

Darren Wurz [00:31:06]:
Awesome. Thanks, Allen, and thank you, the listener, for joining us today. I hope you’ve gathered some groundbreaking insights and strategies to transform your law firm’s trajectory. If you found value in our conversation today, we’d love it if you would subscribe and share this episode with your colleagues and other professionals who might benefit. And if you’re so inclined, please leave a review. To delve deeper into your journey towards financial success, please visit thelawyermillionaire.com. I’m your host, Darren Wurz, and I’ll see you next time.