How Law Firm Owners Can Attract, Nurture, and Retain Top Talent w/ Scott Love (Ep. 31)

Welcome to episode 31 of The Lawyer Millionaire Podcast where our talented interviewer, Darren Wurz, delves deep into the insightful journey of Scott Love, the Founder of the Attorney Search Group.

In this engaging episode, Scott spills the beans on developing a mammoth law firm with a thriving book of business. He advocates for authenticity, shares his valuable knowledge on leveraging thought leadership and making meaningful connections, and brings to light the significance of identifying and nurturing rainmakers within the firm.

Being Authentic in the Legal World

Scott Love emphasizes the core values of authenticity and problem-solving in the modern, tech-forward landscape of law practice. He echoes the belief that being genuine helps to build trust and rapport with clients, leading to impressive client satisfaction and retention rates.

Building Thought Leadership through Content Publishing

Scott’s unique approach to business development blends writing and publishing with a strategic social media presence. He recognizes the power of published content like white papers and articles in asserting credibility and attracting potential clients.

Creating Strong Networks and Connections

With a dynamic blend of offline and online networking, Scott underscores the advantages of a strong professional network. These relationships can lead to incredible opportunities for law firm growth, new clientele, and referrals.

The Power of Proactive ‘Rainmakers’

Scott’s strategies in defining potential rainmakers within a law firm are rooted in past performance. His guidance on training and investing in such potential power players is a refreshing and productive take on law firm growth.

Investing Wisely for Business Development

While it may seem daunting, Scott recommends investing in specialized business development coaching or consultation. These professionals can arm your team with the tools to grow your firm’s book of business effectively and efficiently.

Rewarding Your Best Assets

For Scott, rewarding top performers transcends financial compensation. Your firm’s best assets should be acknowledged with additional resources, control, and empowerment within the organization, ensuring their continued investment in the firm’s success.

The Significance of Sustained Leadership

Scott draws attention to the importance of solid leadership in a law firm. This critical component can significantly impact whether your firm can attract and retain top-notch talent.

Embodying these principles, Scott Love has made a significant impact on the legal industry through his work in recruiting, serving clients, and making placements. Despite his successful career, Scott also managed to pursue his passion for art as a retirement project. He continues to share his knowledge both through the Attorney Search Group and his insightful Rainmaking Podcast.

Are you a law firm owner seeking to build a powerhouse of a team and skyrocket your business success? Draw inspiration from Scott Love’s journey and insightful tips. Check out our podcast, subscribe, leave a review, and share The Lawyer Millionaire with others to spread the wealth of knowledge.

Connect with Darren Wurz:

Connect with Scott Love:

About our guest:

Scott Love helps law firm partners mitigate risk and maximize opportunity when transitioning from one firm to another. He does this by understanding the nuance involved in high stakes negotiations, the algorithm required for an effective partner transition, and the delicate risks associated with complex career moves.

His street-smart savvy and extensive business acumen, coupled with over two-decades of unparalleled executive search experience, give an added element of security for partners who are considering a move to another firm.

Love is a prolific thought leader on the topics of rainmaking, recruiting, and leadership and has written over 250 articles on these subjects. He has been quoted in the Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Bloomberg, The American Lawyer, Above the Law, Law360, the Huffington Post, Business Insider, and dozens of business publications. He is the author of three books: Why They Follow: How to Lead with Positive Influence, The Recruiter’s Adventure Book, and the coauthor of Rainmaker Confidential: How Top Professionals Make Smart Business Development Investments of Time, Treasure, and Talent. Love is a popular speaker on business development topics at conferences and retreats and has keynoted at large legal recruiting conventions, sales meetings for legal recruiting firms, and nearly every trade association in the recruiting industry.

Love’s expertise is further evidenced by his work as an expert witness in the recruiting industry, including a successful jury trial related to legal recruiting, and expert witness opinions related to law firm partner compensation.

Love is a 1989 graduate of The United States Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland. While serving on active duty as a naval officer, he held a Top Secret security clearance, was third in command of a U S Navy ship as a Surface Warfare Officer, and later served as a leadership trainer and organizational development consultant at the world’s largest naval base.

When he is not recruiting, Love enjoys working as a professional watercolor artist, speaking at business meetings on sales and recruiting, writing books, golfing, mentoring DC youth for college through Capital Partners For Education, playing in poker tournaments and cash games, and spending time with his family. He is also the host and producer of The Rainmaking Podcast, a top 3-percent show that gives rainmaking attorneys ideas on how to develop new business and build more meaningful client relationships.

Love is a board of directors member of the National Association of Legal Search Consultants, a member of the National Speakers Association, and is past president of two recruiting industry trade associations. He is an advisory board member of Protect Our Defenders, an advocacy group that supports active duty military service members who are victims of sexual abuse, assault, and harassment.

Love lives in Midlothian, Virginia, and is married with two children, a rescue dog named Ruby, and two rescue cats named Marbles and Prince.

Charity Involvement, Social and Business Clubs and Memberships:

Protect Our Defenders, Advisory Board Member
The Episcopal Parish of the Redeemer, Midlothian, VA; Member of Stewardship and Outreach Committees
The Army Navy Club, Washington, DC
Salisbury Country Club, Midlothian, VA
The Cliffs at Walnut Cove, Asheville, NC
The National Association of Legal Search Consultants; board member and host of “Recruiter Stories”, the official podcast of NALSC
The National Association of Law Placement
The National Speakers Association

Transcript:

Darren Wurz [00:00:02]:
As a law firm owner, you know that mastering the art of rainmaking is essential to the survival and success of your business. In today’s episode, we will be revealing the secrets of successful Rainmakers and sharing practical strategies to help you drive growth and prosperity within your law firm and life. Welcome to another enlightening episode of The Lawyer Millionaire, the podcast that uncovers the secrets to building wealth and planning a prosperous future in the legal industry. I’m your host, Darren Wurz, and today we have a phenomenal guest who’s an author, podcast host, business development expert, and he’s going to tell us all about the mysteries of rainmaking success. I’m delighted to welcome today Scott Love, an esteemed authority in legal recruiting and business development within the legal world. Welcome to the show, Scott.

Scott Love [00:01:02]:
Thank you, Darren. I’m excited to be here.

Darren Wurz [00:01:05]:
Absolutely. I’m excited, too. And this is going to be a great topic, one we haven’t covered before. Before we get into it for our audience, why don’t you just tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Scott Love [00:01:16]:
Sure. I own. And I’m the founder of the Attorney Search Group. We’re a legal recruiting firm where our niche isn’t just law firms, it’s big law firms. And it isn’t just big law firms, it’s recruiting partners for big law firms. And only those partners who are rainmakers, those people that have a cadre of loyal clients that hopefully will follow them to other opportunities. So that’s our niche. And every day I’m on the phone making new friends with other attorneys, people that are open to making a move.

Darren Wurz [00:01:44]:
Absolutely. And how about your background? What got you into this world of legal recruiting? It’s kind of an interesting niche.

Scott Love [00:01:53]:
It is. It’s really peculiar. There’s a lot of interesting people that I talk to every day. I got into it because I had a training company. I’d been in recruiting, Darren, since 1995. I did pretty well 2002, started a recruiter training company. I trained recruiters on how to sell, how to close deals, how to make placements. I had over 4500 recruiting companies from 36 countries. They invested in my resources. Some of those were legal recruiters. And I knew that if I ever wanted to get back into doing recruiting, that would be the niche that I did. And several friends of mine who were clients of mine taught me what legal is all about. And in 2009, I made the switch and got back into recruiting, but just in legal. Made a lot of mistakes along the way. But I think that what I learned at the Naval Academy was being resilient. I’m a graduate of Annapolis, served time on a Navy ship, was also a leadership trainer. All that really helped me to withstand all the ups and downs of legal recruiting. And there’s a lot of those. So I love it. Every day I go to bed Sunday night, excited about Monday. Every day. There’s a lot of action. And like I said, I’m talking to interesting people, people that you see on CNN you read about in the Wall Street Journal. It’s kind of exciting to watch the CNN news. And I see one of my candidates being interviewed. I’ll tell my wife, look, he has an interview with one of my clients tomorrow. So I love it. I love the work. I love earning trust from partners that have a lot to lose, but they still want to move. And I love earning the trust from the law firms. I get deep inside the law firms understand what their culture is, what their strategies are. So it’s thrilling work. It’s a grind like anything, but I learn a lot. I learn something every day.

Darren Wurz [00:03:35]:
Yeah, that’s really fascinating. And what a great background coming from service for our country and then into this business. Now, a great journey that you’ve been through. And as you mentioned, you’ve talked with lots of interesting people and you’ve rubbed shoulders with some very influential people and some great rainmakers. So in that process, let’s get into it. And can you share with our audience, as you’ve done that, what are some of the key qualities and behaviors that set successful rainmakers apart from their peers in the legal industry?

Scott Love [00:04:13]:
Yeah, that’s a good question. And I think number one is somebody has to have a desire to grow a book and to become a successful rainmaker. There are a lot of people I talk to that that just has never been a priority for them. And then they find out that their firm is starting to reward those people that bring the business in more than service partners, although I think service partners, people that don’t have their own cadre of clients, their own clients, they’re serving other firm clients, those are people that still need to be well compensated with firms. We need people that are doing the work. Tax attorneys, trust and estates, things like that. But I think, number one, an attorney says I need to get my own business and finding resources that help them do that. Some firms have their own resources. Some firms will have coaches. I know that there are some firms that have internal business development coaches. I know about 60 business development coaches that are independent that coach lawyers on how to grow their book. But I’d say that’s number one is saying that I want to make a decision. I want to grow my book of business. How do I do that? Just like anything, it’s a skill, it can be learned, and it’s not necessarily personality. Some of the best rainmakers I’ve met are introverts. They know how to be quiet and ask good questions and let the client talk. And so I think number one is desire. I think, number two, they understand the value of finding some sort of a niche finding some sort of niche within a niche within a niche where there’s demand for that and showing that they are truly a specialist. Then I think, number three, you’ve got to be willing to take the risk of putting your name out there and showing that you have something interesting to say. There’s one candidate that doesn’t have a book and I presented her to a client. They have a need for someone that necessarily doesn’t have to have a book of business. But she hired a coach and she’s got a panel that she’s going to be on this fall that’s going to set her apart from everybody else. And it’s interesting how just one good presentation can really open things up for an attorney. When they sit on a panel, they get recognized, then they start to become a thought leader within that world. Those are things we can talk a little bit more granularly about here shortly. But I’d say having the desire, knowing that they need to take action steps and getting the information on how to do it and then putting themselves in a position of risk, they’ve got to put themselves out there, which is risky.

Darren Wurz [00:06:39]:
I like what you said there about introvert and extrovert. That’s great. And I’m laughing a little bit on the inside because I’m much more of an introvert, but I’ve had to build a business and it’s a family business. My dad, on the other hand, is way an extrovert. He can have a conversation with a rock. I mean, any object he is out there, he will talk to anyone. That was kind of a struggle for me, kind of getting my business started. I kind of felt like these are skills that I just are gifts that I wasn’t born with. But it’s a skill that can be learned, right?

Scott Love [00:07:23]:
That’s right. Just like anything.

Darren Wurz [00:07:25]:
Yeah.

Darren Wurz [00:07:54]:
In three, two, one. And I want to focus on that last one you mentioned there, which was thought leadership. And I love that because when I think of you, I think of thought leadership. You’re doing that, you’re out there speaking, engaging with folks. Tell us a little bit about how someone gets into that world and what are some steps you could take to really begin to establish yourself as a thought leader.

Scott Love [00:08:20]:
Sure. And I think it’s a mix between a well executed strategic plan and ready, fire, aim. Sometimes you just walk forward a little bit, make some mistakes, make adjustments. So, for example, with my podcast, the Rainmaking podcast, we’re in our third year. It was April after COVID. I thought, I’m going to put on a show. I’m going to take an old dormant podcast feed I’d had that hadn’t been listened to for about five years as my old recruiter training one. And I said, I’m going to take that, I’m going to convert it, and I’m going to call it the Rainmaking Podcast. And I would interview experts on business development because I got tired of reading press releases of attorneys making moves. I talked to that guy. How come he didn’t call me back? Oh, well, I don’t have an email marketing list. And if I put lawyers on an email newsletter, they’re going to say, take me off your spam list, you spamming scum. So I knew that I can’t do that, but how can I stay connected with them? And I realized, what do they care about? They don’t care about talking to a headhunter until they want to move, but they care about getting clients all the time. So basically, Darren first step is what relevance do you have that can help people even if they don’t hire you information about business development. And so I would interview coaches, experts, speakers, authors, people that had written book on sales, business development, call it whatever you want. And essentially it was this shiny lure that I’m dangling in front of my prospects that helps them even if they don’t ever call me again. And I think that’s what you need to do is ask yourself what value and what relevance do you have to the world that you can give people that can benefit them even if they don’t ever call you again? And so I started that and I made mistakes and I interviewed people and I learned how to promote a podcast. One thing that it did, two of the guests that I had, they were authors, and they said, let’s write a book, scott and you’ve had us on your show a few times. Why don’t you send us some work that you’ve done and we’ll do the heavy lifting and put it in a book called Rainmaker Confidential. And I’m like, wow, this is great. So now whenever I meet with the client, meet with the chairman of a law firm, I bring a copy of my signed book. It’s my business card now. So that was a surprising benefit of that. So I think, Darren, the point is, you start moving forward. You have a little bit of an idea of what you want to accomplish, but you also have to be open to other opportunities as they present themselves to you. And once you start producing content, then you will be known as one of the cool kids in class. You will be the one that everybody invites to for their pool parties every weekend. I mean, you will be the kid that people think is really cool because our society loves celebrities. I kid you not. I was in a new client that is a smaller firm a little bit outside of what I do, but I want to work with them for their various reasons. And I met with their director of recruiting and their VP of HR and when I met with them, they said, we feel like you’re a celebrity because they’d seen all the things I’d done on social media for the last three years, which had spun out of my little podcast that I did. So I think you’ve got to have a little bit of a plan. But then also serendipitously you will find opportunities or actually opportunities will find you when you put yourself out there. That this is what I know. Now, I would be willing to bet that every other league of recruiter out there knows more than what I know. I don’t want to admit that and I can’t believe I’m admitting that in public, but I’m the one that put the show together. And then another serendipitous variable that I didn’t anticipate from my show was I developed a cadre of Alliance Partners, all these business development coaches that are coaching lawyers one on one. They know when their clients are unhappy and they refer them to me, which is interesting. So I think the whole point, Darren, is be strategic, have an idea of what the value is. How do you bring relevance even when people can’t hire you and then take action, just start doing something, put your name out there.

Darren Wurz [00:12:15]:
Yeah, that’s really good. We hear often about building a network and this is one way to do that. It’s kind of a different way of thinking about it. Building your thought leadership, building your celebrity. And yeah, when I see your stuff and see the brand that you have created for yourself, I see celebrity. You know what I mean? That is kind of the aura that you give off. And that’s great. And this is great for lawyers because in terms of selling, you can’t just get on the phone and start calling people. You have to build that audience. And that’s a great way to reach people, just to build that reputation and that branding. And let’s talk a little bit about personal branding. How can lawyers think about their personal brand and tell us a little bit about how we should approach that aspect of our marketing and thought leadership, the personal branding side of things, right.

Scott Love [00:13:16]:
I would say from their own research, we might think people work with us because of certain reasons, but when we do the research and find out, there might be other reasons why people have chosen us. One thing I did in reaching out to people that I placed, what was it about our relationship that helped you? And I found out there was one common theme. They knew I was going to do what was in their best interest, not what would make me a placement. And it was the trust that I built. And so I think I would say step one is look at your top three to five clients. People that you know really well, people that I wouldn’t say your besties, but you know that you have more than just a business relationship. Tell them I have an initiative and I’m looking to step up my game. In terms of business development, what are three reasons why you chose to work with me? Or how have I been able to help you? And look at that theme, and you might be able to have a theme that comes out of that. One thing I did when I noticed that this is the common theme. I changed my whole messaging. When you go to my site, it isn’t that I help you grow your practice, it’s I mitigate the risk of a potential move. And so that’s kind of what I start with. I talk about how can I make it a safe bet for you to work with me in terms of going from your current firm to another firm? So I would say start with what your clients think about you. Maybe you could kind of build a whole theme around that. There was one candidate, I didn’t place him, but he was very impressive because he was very deliberate and very intentional about what he did in building his own brand. And he said, I have a goal each week to make one significant connection with a client prospect or one significant person that can influence me to introduce me to client prospects. I said, how did you know that’s 50 a year, it’s just one a week. And so it would be things like, I’m going to reach out to a trade association to sit on a panel at their conference. Boom. That can just move the bowl so much more quickly like that.

Darren Wurz [00:15:20]:
Yeah, absolutely.

Scott Love [00:15:22]:
I would say it’s looking for what’s the theme around why people work with you compared to your competitors?

Darren Wurz [00:15:28]:
Yeah and that’s unique to you. And I was listening to another podcast recently, and they were talking about being genuine and being authentic and being yourself. And there are people that work with you because of you, because of who you are and the kind of person you are. And they like you building that like, and trust factor.

Scott Love [00:15:48]:
Absolutely.

Darren Wurz [00:15:48]:
You just have to be the person that you are.

Scott Love [00:15:51]:
That’s right.

Darren Wurz [00:15:52]:
For me, I’m a bit more casual, and that’s just kind of my personality. You will never, ever see me wearing a tie. I have never been that way since the day I got into financial planning. But it’s about identifying, and that’s just a very simple example, but figuring out what clients like about you. That’s a great these are things that are not taught in law school. The ideas of becoming a rainmaker and business development. What are some effective strategies that law firm owners can implement to develop and improve their business development skills and their rainmaking skills,

Scott Love [00:16:31]:
I would say, get published, number one. If it’s a white paper, if it’s a special report. I would say, in fact, you could have a whole initiative just off that one strategy alone that could pay off in dividends. One thing I’ve done, whenever I remember when I first got into legal, I was recruiting in a different niche and I was able to get a referral to the managing partner of an Amla 100 firm’s office in Washington from his VP of Marketing. I put out a query. I’m looking to interview law firm leaders for an article I’m writing on leadership. And I connected with him. And so it was almost as if the article itself, the value was secondary compared to the relationship that I built in writing that article because I got very close to a client, he brought me in their firm. I made three placements within the first, probably 18 months that I worked with them, significant partners. That was the first law firm client that I ever had and I didn’t reach out to him. Hey, my name is Scott Love. I’ve never placed a lawyers before and I want you to be my first client. It was your VP of Marketing referred me to you and I’m writing an article on leadership and I’d like to interview you. And from that we had a really good relationship that built. So I would say start with one strategy like that in terms of writing getting published. That could be a line of a marketing line that somebody could pursue. They could build a whole business out of that. They could even have a theme. They could have some sort of newsletter put together. They could reach out to a trade association and even come up with a regular column related to whatever their practice is. So I would say if that’s all they did, if they just wrote on certain articles or on certain topics, whether it’s an article or a white paper, and then look for places that can publish that, such as trade associations.

Darren Wurz [00:18:17]:
Yeah. So the influence from that and then you mentioned something very interesting in there, which was that the connection that you made was almost more valuable than the activity itself. And these are kind of old school tactics, but they work. And that is just the building of relationships and the building of connections. So often we think we need to just pour everything into the Internet and someone’s going to find us on Google and call us. Well, sometimes. But a lot of times, and this has been my own experience, you meet this person and then that person introduces you to this person, and then that person introduces you to somebody else. And it’s just kind of fun and interesting and random the way those connections sort of build on each other. I bet you’ve experienced a lot of that yourself.

Scott Love [00:19:04]:
I have. And it’s not something that I think one can predict with any guarantee. I think it’s basically, you know that at some point it will come back to you, as long as you’re smart about that. And I do think that publishing on social media, you’re right. LinkedIn, all the other things that we’ve learned about publishing, I think you need to have that. And I don’t think the expectation should necessarily be that someone’s going to call me because of what they wrote or excuse me, because of what they read that I wrote on LinkedIn, but they’re still going to check me out at some point before we talk. And when they see that there’s a body of work that I’ve published over the last few months on this one topic, they’re going to make that decision that I am a Credentialed expert on that area. They might not call me because of that, but they’re going to reinforce my value and my expertise based on what they write. So I think you’re right. I don’t think we should have the expectation that this is going to get me the call, but it’s going to reinforce my brand. It’s going to reinforce my authority on that topic because I am published.

Darren Wurz [00:20:05]:
Yeah, my dad always said something interesting, and it was three simple words activity, activity, activity. And you don’t know what’s going to happen, but if you are staying active, then the results will follow.

Scott Love [00:20:18]:
Absolutely right.

Darren Wurz [00:20:20]:
You can’t predict. You have no idea. I’m going to get X and number of clients. But if I’m doing the right things, then the connections and the clients will follow.

Scott Love [00:20:28]:
And I think that’s the common theme that I’ve heard through every guest on my show on the Rainmaking podcast. I think we’re over 160 episodes. And if I could say, what’s the common theme? I’ve heard from everybody, it’s just doing something, taking action. So I think you’re absolutely right, Darren.

Darren Wurz [00:20:44]:
That’s great. So now you mentioned earlier in the podcast about not everybody wants the role of a Rainmaker. We need people in other positions as well. So if we’re talking to law firm owners who have a team of people, how can they effectively identify who in their team is going to be a great Rainmaker and help to nurture that potential and grow that within their organization?

Scott Love [00:21:10]:
I would look at who’s demonstrated in their past execution, who’s actually taken action on that. I think that when we look at hiring people, this is advice I give to every hiring manager, whether you’re in a law firm or a company. Look at their past results. That is the best indicator of future performance. I know you can’t say that with investments, but I know with people that’s all you got. And so I would actually assign them certain tasks. If you go to my show, there’s, like I mentioned, dozens upon dozens of business development coaches that you can reach out to and have them work with your people and see who actually does that. Have them give you feedback. Out of the X number of people you have on our team, who would you say has the best shot at building a significant book of business? That’s what I’d recommend. You could even gamify it, have a contest or something like that, make it interesting. But I would definitely say this is an area where you’re going to invest money in a coach or a consultant, and that’s not what I do. So it’s not a pitch, but I would say put money into it, make an investment. Hire people that know what they’re doing. Hire people that have a track record of helping firms grow their books of business and how they’re actually going to do that. That’s what I would recommend is hire an expert, work with them, have them hold your team accountable and see who rises to the top.

Darren Wurz [00:22:29]:
Yeah.

Darren Wurz [00:22:29]:
Now, on the other hand, you could bring somebody in who’s a rainmaker and that’s kind of more your forte. So if I’m a law firm owner and I need a rainmaker on my team, right. How do I attract that person? How am I going to get that person to be a part of my team?

Scott Love [00:22:44]:
Yeah. I’d say three things. One is support. Do you have resources that can support this person in his or her practice, such as associate support staff, paralegals, things like that? Do you have that peace of mind that you can offer them so they don’t have to do things that are not worth their time to do? One thing I saw after COVID, all the big firms picked off associates from the small firms, they brought on people they probably might not have normally considered just because they needed them. And so some of the small firms have said, gosh, we’re losing partners now because they’re having to do associate level work. So I would say if you’re a small firm, you want to attract a rainmaker. Number one, show them how you can support them. Number two, how can you reward them? And it’s not just money, but how can you reward them in terms of giving them even more resources? I think some firms even have a formulaic model where if you do this, then this is what you’re going to receive. Then I think number three is give people control. Give them a clear sense of how they’re going to build their book of business, how you’re going to empower them and support them. Because if you think about that, in America, at least when a partner goes to another firm, there’s no non compete because nobody can interfere with who a client chooses as his or her legal counsel. So that you’ve got that to deal with. Also one thing I realized, Darren, not being an ex lawyer, coming into legal, I didn’t have any preconceived ideas. So when I saw how law firms are structured, I looked at them and I said, gosh, that’s kind of weird. What a weird way to run an organization, but that’s just how it is. And I realized that a law firm is nothing more than a collective of peers held together only by conditional promises to each other. And that’s it. And anybody can leave at any time for any reason and those clients can follow. And I’ve seen it in some firms where a group leaves another group, another group, all of a sudden the partners that are there gosh. Our resource of internal referrals has just left. We need to find another platform. But I think at the epicenter, regardless of the amount of support you give reward or control, number one, Darren, is leadership. I think that is the void that exists mostly in law firms. Leadership. Living by a set of core values, having a clear vision of what your firm is all about, what’s the mission of your firm also? What is that noble goal? What is that overarching Noble goal that your organization have that has in terms of service to others? And I think those are the things, I mean we could spend a lot of time talking about that also. But I think if a firm leader can show leadership, I think that’s truly attractive to people because it doesn’t exist as much in most firms, and especially in big firms.

Darren Wurz [00:25:31]:
People need to know that they’re going somewhere.

Scott Love [00:25:33]:
Absolutely right. Yeah. People don’t want to be pushed, but they’re okay following and they’re only going to follow someone that’s worthy of earning that trust. Someone that’s followable is how I absolutely.

Darren Wurz [00:25:48]:
That’s great advice.

Darren Wurz [00:25:50]:
So if you’re looking for talent on your team, you heard it. Here the ingredients you need for you know, our world has been through a lot of stuff over the last few years. I’m curious, has rainmaking changed in a post COVID world and business development and where is it going?

Scott Love [00:19:03]:
That’s an interesting question and that was the very first question I asked one of my very first guests, Pat Gillette on my initial show. And I saw that the theme of what she mentioned, it’s sincerity and also curiosity. I think that putting yourself in the path of those people who have a need and showing that you can solve that problem, that’s the ultimate arch. I think that we need to have is put ourselves in that path or in the arc of the hero’s journey is what I call it. Here you are starting out on a path, building a book of business and you grow that and you become a resource for other people. So I think it’s just curiosity where you have a conversation with the prospect. So for example, I have two colleagues that do associate recruiting. We have a new one that just started today and I told her when you’re calling people to recruit them, we don’t know what they want. It’s being curious, how can I help you? So I think even a lawyers, you have a client prospect, your goal shouldn’t be, I’m here to close the sale, I want to get them to sign a retainer agreement. It could be. I’m just curious, what are the problems that you have? How are those problems impacting you? What’s the implication of that problem on a business level? What’s the implication of that problem on a personal and an emotional level? Really is where they’re making their decision and showing that you’re the one that has earned the right to be trusted to solve that problem. But I think that’s the theme I’ve seen post COVID. It’s about curiosity, curiosity, sincerity. And what you mentioned before, being authentic, being exactly who you are. I think that’s what people want, successful people that have problems, they want to trust people that are being real with them, people that aren’t being pushy, that know the language of trust, how to communicate in a way that doesn’t alienate them, doesn’t push them, but leads them to conclude that you can solve their problem. And being curious about that, how can I help you and find out what that is.

Darren Wurz [00:28:03]:
Yeah, those core values haven’t changed. Those core values are probably going to remain the same. And then the question is just how are we going to adapt those into a more technological world, into a more virtual world and that sort of thing. But those are great things. Sincerity, authenticity, not being pushy and trying to solve people’s problems. And I found in my own experience that the no pressure approach often works best. And it’s amazing how that works. Well, Scott, we’re close to the end of our time here, and it’s been great chatting with you about all these things. I’ve got one last question for you, something we ask all of our guests. What is the future for you look like? What are some of your future goals and what does your dream retirement look like?

Scott Love [00:28:53]:
Yeah, that’s a good question. And my future goals are what I’m doing right now. Doing deals, putting money away. My wife stays at home with our kid and is a professional volunteer. She got appointed to the vestry of our parish, so she’s really involved in volunteer work. But it’s just to keep billing, making placements, serving clients, making friends in the legal community, being of service to people. If I can’t help them, if I can’t place them, I probably know somebody that can’t. And to be of service without any expectation of compensation from that. And then also I do some speaking, keynote speaking, I enjoy that. To different groups on business development. I’ve got a whole other brand on that. And then even coaching people in the recruiting industry through group coaching. That’s kind of my retirement business that I’m setting up now. But really, Darren, in about nine or ten years, if and when I do give up the dream of talking to lawyers every day. I’m an artist, I’m a watercolor artist taking oil lessons. I got my own studio for the first time out in town here in Richmond last week, moved in last Friday. So every Friday from one to five, I’m going to be painting and hopefully get art exhibited in Santa Fe. I love painting western scenes, so that’s something that I’m really passionate about. So I can see myself just doing that as a retirement business. But I don’t know. The work of recruiting is a lot of fun and at some point, probably just spending a couple of days a week doing this and painting and golfing the rest of the time would be a dream retirement for me.

Darren Wurz [00:30:21]:
That sounds great. I love that. And the reason I love asking this question is because everyone’s answer is always so unique and that’s really certainly a unique one and a great talent to have. Well, great. Thanks, Scott, so much for joining us. And if you would please share with our audience how they can learn more about you or get in touch with you if they want to.

Scott Love [00:30:41]:
Sure. My website for legal recruiting is attorneysearchgroup.com, and the name of our podcast is The Rainmaking Podcast. You can Google that. You can find that anywhere. Podcasts are hosted. We’re on Apple podcasts and also spotify it’s the Rainmaking podcast.

Darren Wurz [00:30:59]:
Great.

Darren Wurz [00:31:00]:
Well, thanks again. And thank you, the listener, for joining us today on The Lawyer Millionaire. If you want to learn more, check out our website, thelawormillionaire.com. There you can find free resources and webinars, grab a copy of my book or even schedule time to chat with me about your own financial goals and creating a plan to make them happen. If you enjoyed today’s episode, be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode packed with useful advice and expertise for law firm owners just like you. We also invite you to leave a review and share The Lawyer Millionaire with your friends and colleagues who might benefit from our discussions. Together, let’s empower more law firm owners to achieve even greater levels of success and freedom. Now take what you learned today and go make your dreams a reality. I’m your host, Darren Wurz, and I’ll see you next time.