From Lawyer to Multi Business Owner: Christopher Small's Entrepreneurial Journey (Ep. 105) |

On this episode of The Lawyer Millionaire Podcast, we present an in-depth conversation with Christopher Small, a prominent law firm owner who successfully ventured into the realm of entrepreneurship. This episode is pivotal for those in the legal profession contemplating expanding their expertise into auxiliary business sectors.

Transforming Law Firm Challenges into Opportunities:

Christopher Small’s entrepreneurial spirit was sparked by common pain points in the legal industry, particularly in bookkeeping. Upon recognizing how law firms, including his own, often struggle with efficient bookkeeping, he founded Big Bird Accounting. This venture is tailored specifically to service law firm owners, helping them take command of their numbers and create more profitable practices.

Key Takeaway: Seize Industry Gaps

Identifying problems within your own industry can lead to innovative business ideas. By solving issues you personally encounter, you are likely addressing widespread needs which can translate into a lucrative business opportunity.

Navigating Dual Business Endeavors:

While juggling multiple businesses may sound daunting, Christopher ensures he scales each entity effectively. Emphasizing the importance of systems and delegation, he highlights the necessity of reaching an operational scale in the first venture before launching another.

Key Takeaway: Implement Strong Systems and Delegate Tasks

Manage scalability by building strong operational systems and delegating effectively. Once your primary business is self-sustaining, venturing into a new business can be seamless and rewarding.

Developing Business Acumen Beyond Legal Expertise:

For law firm leaders, a pivotal shift is moving from being proficient lawyers to becoming astute business leaders. Christopher’s journey reaffirms the importance of this transition. With a focus on systems, client service, and leveraging recurring revenue models, his experience shows how law firm owners can apply these skills elsewhere.

Key Takeaway: Evolve from Lawyer to Entrepreneur

Cultivate business acumen through continuous learning and system implementation, enabling transitions into entrepreneurship beyond personal legal practice.

Leading and Managing Teams Effectively:

A significant part of Christopher’s journey involved mastering the art of leadership and management. Through trial, error, and introspection, he refined his approach to building a team that complements the firm’s objectives. His advice to aspiring business leaders emphasizes understanding individual strengths and maintaining a balance between micro-management and laissez-faire attitudes.

Key Takeaway: Balance Leadership with Hands-On Management

Effective leadership involves strategic delegation and cultivating a supportive work environment, enabling your team to thrive and your business to flourish.

Crafting Your Personal and Professional Vision:

Simon Sinek’s Start with Why resonates with Christopher, encouraging a personal ‘why’ behind business endeavors. His clarity about desiring engaging work and enjoying life drives his business growth, ensuring every endeavor aligns with personal fulfillment objectives.

Key Takeaway: Align Business Ventures with Personal Fulfillment

Identify and pursue what truly matters to you personally, ensuring each business decision aligns with your greater vision of success and satisfaction.

Conclusion:

Christopher Small’s story is a powerful testament to the potential of identifying industry gaps, leveraging entrepreneurial skills, and maintaining a balance between personal happiness and professional growth. His conscious choice to serve law firm owners while embracing creativity in business innovation serves as a model for law firm owners eager to diversify and scale their ventures.

Connect with Darren:

Connect with Christopher:

About our guest:

Christopher Small is the founder of Big Bird Accounting LLC, a firm specializing in bookkeeping and tax strategy for law firm owners. As the founder of CMS Law Firm, a thriving 7-figure estate planning and probate practice, he understands firsthand what it takes to build a successful law firm. With deep expertise in law firm accounting and tax strategies, including trust account reconciliation, Christopher helps law firm owners take control of their numbers, save on taxes, and free up their time.

Transcript:

Darren Wurz [00:00:00]:
While most law firm owners may stop at building one successful practice, Christopher Small saw a bigger opportunity and built a second business to fix an industry wide problem. Welcome to the Lawyer Millionaire. Helping law firm owners scale profitably, escape the daily grind and turn their firm into a wealth building asset. Running a law firm is one thing. Building multiple businesses is another. How do you go from law firm owner to serial entrepreneur? And once you’ve mastered the basics of running a firm and building a business, what’s next? Christopher Small started as a law firm owner, but he didn’t stop there. After seeing massive gaps in how law firms handle their bookkeeping, he launched Big Bird Accounting, a firm dedicated to helping law firm owners take control of their numbers and build stronger, more profitable practices.

Intro [00:00:52]:
We are on a mission to help lawyers and law firm owners maximize wealth and achieve financial independence. Welcome to the Lawyer Millionaire with Darren Wirtz from Wirtz Financial Services.

Darren Wurz [00:01:06]:
All right, we’re here with Christopher Small. I’m super excited to talk with him. He’s not only a law firm owner, but also an entrepreneur, as we’ll find out. So, Chris, you know, a lot of law firm owners do dream about this, you know, starting a second business. Usually it’s, you know, coaching or consulting. I love that you’ve gone in a different direction with Big Bird Accounting, but let’s be real here. What’s the brutal truth about running two businesses?

Christopher Small [00:01:38]:
Yeah, there’s a saying, but I can’t remember what it is. It’s something like, you know, to a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush or something. So like, everyone always tells you, focus on one thing and you’ll go faster. And it’s 100 true. I didn’t really get into the second business until the law firm was pretty much up and running. So, yeah, that is kind of what happened. However, I will say I have had a coaching business in the past and okay, it was really sort of just for fun. It was organic, quickly kind of grown.

Christopher Small [00:02:19]:
Because when I, when I first started my law firm, way back in the day, like 2009, I started a blog about starting a law firm. Okay, nice. This was, and this is really just to like, write down my thoughts, like share what I was going through. But my idea was, you know, I was going to be able to look back on it in the future and, you know, just see how stupid I was or all the mistakes that I made. But people started reading it and then they were like, can you help me? And I was like, I can if you pay me, you know, and so that was. And the reason I’m telling the story is to close the loop on this. But I, I did try to do kind of both of those for a while, and I found it was extremely difficult to do both well when you’re really trying to grow both.

Darren Wurz [00:03:09]:
Yeah. So you guys reach a certain size, a certain level of scale. Right. Where you can delegate enough things that it, that it can be. Be doable. But a great place to get to for sure when you’re able to.

Christopher Small [00:03:23]:
Yeah, with my firm, for sure. It literally got to the point where I was. I had been thinking about starting an accounting firm for a long time, and my law firm got to the point where I just was. Had a lot of time on my hands, you know, like, pretty much everybody was doing everything. I was only sort of managing everything, doing some training and stuff. But there’s a lot of times where I was just like sitting in my office, like, what am I supposed to do? You know? And so then it was just like, let’s go do this. I try to buy an accounting firm too, for a long time. I try.

Christopher Small [00:04:00]:
I’ve tried to. This has been stewing for like several years, but then I finally just pulled the trigger on it. So let’s go.

Darren Wurz [00:04:06]:
Okay, Chris, so you started this firm, Big Bird Accounting Us. What inspired this? What were some of the specific pain points that you were seeing either for yourself or maybe among other people you were talking to in the legal industry?

Christopher Small [00:04:20]:
Yep. So it was only me. It was only my pain point. But I just figured if I had it, then other people probably had it too. So there’s a couple things I’ll tell you originally. Okay, so there’s two things that inspired it. One, me, like, trying to, you know, scratch my own itch, and me also just wanting to make some money. Real talk.

Darren Wurz [00:04:41]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:04:42]:
So, you know, I, I had done my own bookkeeping in the past. I had, I had hired bookkeepers. I just, the experience when I did it on my own was always way better, it seemed like, than when I hired somebody else to do it seemed to sort of like be really expensive or take a long time. And it didn’t just. Just didn’t seem that. That complicated to me. So I eventually hired a bookkeeper to just come and work for me all the time, just for my firm, essentially not even a full time job. I just paid her full time and like, it was fine.

Christopher Small [00:05:18]:
And then in this, in that same sense, I know, you know, the accounting industry is very much like the legal services industry in that customer service, client communication, Systems, sort of just taking advantage of efficiencies is not great. So there’s an opportunity there, you know, if you can do a good job, I think, to create some, some business and do it and just do a good service for people, quite frankly. So that was number one reason why I thought about doing this. I had kind of built a little bit of an internal system with what I was doing with my own stuff. And so I was like, well, I’ll just share this with other people. Law firm owners specifically. Like basically all of our clients are law firm owners. And then the second reason was I.

Christopher Small [00:06:04]:
My law firm is actually quite successful. I don’t know. I feel like we are talking about your own success. Kind of strange. Very successful. Okay. So I have several attorneys that work for me. We have, you know, everything is really good on that side.

Christopher Small [00:06:19]:
But what I have never liked about the law, my law firm really from day one, is that there’s no recurring revenue really. You know, we do estate planning and probate. People do come back like they want to update their plan, but it’s not like on any sort of a time clock. You never know. And usually the work that they want to have done later on is smaller. It’s just not the same. So you know, with, with accounting and we really do. So we do like bookkeeping and tax strategy.

Christopher Small [00:06:50]:
We don’t do tax prep and filing. We don’t do that. And mo. And there’s options. Most of our, most of the people that work with us, it’s really bookkeeping, trust, account reconciliation, that type of stuff. Right. Just nuts and bolts type of stuff. Well, you can.

Christopher Small [00:07:08]:
People will pay you every month for that forever if you do a good job for them, you know. So I’m like, let’s crank up some systems, let’s offer to do the service and then let’s just go.

Darren Wurz [00:07:21]:
Yeah, I love it.

Christopher Small [00:07:23]:
Yeah.

Darren Wurz [00:07:24]:
You know, I hear that often from a lot of law firm owners that the struggle with finding a good bookkeeper who. Or accounting firm, that’s really on it. That’s proactive, that’s responsive there. You’re right. There’s not a lot of proactive planning that’s getting done, I think. Well among CPAs in particular, because they’re just so busy, they’re preparing like four or five hundred returns and they’re just swamped. They don’t have the time or capacity or mental energy to really be strategic or forward thinking. And I think there might be a shortage of CPAs out there.

Darren Wurz [00:08:03]:
Just I’m spitballing here, but you know, one of the things that we hear, the clients say, they came, they come to us, they tell us, you know, all I’ve ever heard from my accountant is just be glad you make so much money that you have the privilege of paying so much in taxes. There’s really nothing you can do. Tell us about that. Have you run into that?

Christopher Small [00:08:26]:
Well, it’s just stupid. It’s like I am one of my best, literally my best friends is a cpa. His office is right next door to mine, and I still could not really have a conversation with him about, you know, like, tax strategy or planning or just even like, what I was projected to owe unless I went in there and like, bugged him, you know.

Darren Wurz [00:08:52]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:08:52]:
So I think, and I think. I think for a lot of CPAs, it’s just a mindset thing that’s just. They don’t see their role necessarily as doing that. Their role is, you know, tax prep and filing. You give me your stuff, I going to do it for you. When I see what you have, I’ll make sure that everything that’s available is utilized. But as far as, like, proactively, you know, implementing a new strategy, that’s. We just don’t do that.

Christopher Small [00:09:20]:
You know, I. I think part of that’s communication. Part of that is, you know, lack of systems, because you could teach a whole bunch of people the same thing all at one time and provide a lot of value. I think the other thing too is they just. You, you have this other. You have this flip side as well. Most, most CPAs charge by the hour, and, you know, you’re not sure what you’re going to get. So you don’t want to go and spend 500 bucks to talk with your CPA for an hour when you’re not.

Christopher Small [00:09:47]:
You may. It may not be productive, you know, or you may get some things that you don’t know how to implement or, or, you know, any of those things. So, you know, I think it’s just really. You kind of have to get lucky to find someone that’s proactive, you know, from a tax strategy standpoint. Just out there in the world. It’s hard. Really hard.

Darren Wurz [00:10:10]:
Yeah. Amen. I hear that. So, you know, I think it’s interesting, you know, being a law firm owner, especially if you’re. If you’re. If you want to grow, you know, you’re very ambitious and you want to go beyond just being a sole practitioner. You really get a crash course in business building because you have to learn about efficiency and systems and scaling and all of that jazz. And so.

Darren Wurz [00:10:35]:
But here’s the cool thing, right? Once you learn that, you really can apply that to any industry. Here’s the thing. I find law firm owners feel like they’re so unique and their struggles are so unique. And definitely there are some unique things. But it’s like every business owner has similar, every industry has similar challenges that they need to overcome. So once you learn that, once you master those ideas, you can take that to other industries. And that’s kind of what you are doing essentially.

Christopher Small [00:11:01]:
It’s. It’s business fundamentals just applied in a, in a different area and it’s service based business. So it’s even, really, even closer than you go and do an E Comm or something. That would be hard for me because it’s way different. You know, it’s like. But.

Christopher Small [00:11:21]:
And when we’re also like, because we do estate planning and probate, the, the tax stuff is like, we’re on the fringes of this tax stuff all the time. So it’s even closer for, for what we do. You know, we’re. Because we’re talking about taxes all the time. We’re not, we’re not doing. We are. And we’re talking strategically as well. Sometimes from an income tax standpoint.

Christopher Small [00:11:41]:
Definitely from an estate tax type of a standpoint.

Darren Wurz [00:11:44]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:11:44]:
But, you know, so there’s always already that built in. But yeah, it’s really like, can you find potential clients, can you sign them up and can you service them? Like, this is what, this is what we’re talking about. And you put people in positions to help you do all of those things. And you just do that over and over again. And I, I always tell law firm owners this, what we do is not special. You know, it is just, it’s just like being a plumber. It’s exactly the same. Right.

Christopher Small [00:12:14]:
Because there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of expertise in being a plumber. You know, we just get to wear suits instead of, you know, dig around toilet all day, I guess. But it’s, it’s the same. It’s exactly the same.

Darren Wurz [00:12:26]:
Hey, and you can make a great, you can make a really good amount of money as a plumber, let me tell you.

Christopher Small [00:12:30]:
100%.

Darren Wurz [00:12:33]:
Let’s talk about your law practice and your journey there. You know, one of the biggest challenges that we see is really trying to shift this mindset from being a great lawyer to being a great business leader. When did that happen for you and what was that transition like?

Christopher Small [00:12:50]:
Yep. For me, honestly, it Was day one. It’s always been that way.

Darren Wurz [00:12:54]:
Okay.

Christopher Small [00:12:54]:
My law firm is called CMS Law Firm. I named it that because I did not want people calling and asking for me, like, literally from day one. I made this choice, I think, and I think the difference is for me, because I’m just a weird dude probably, but I. My ego has never been tied to whether people think I’m a good attorney or not. I think that’s where a lot of law firm owners get hung up.

Darren Wurz [00:13:21]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:13:21]:
Because as you, you know, as you move into this business owner role, you work less and less with clients. You sort of get less and less of that. Oh, you’re a wonderful attorney. You know, you’re. You’re maybe not participating as much in, like, the bar, you know, like, with activities and stuff. And. And, you know, a lot of people, like, being an attorney is like, that’s their. A big, big piece of their identity.

Christopher Small [00:13:47]:
And you. You really do kind of have to give that up a little bit if you’re going to own a law firm and do it well, you know, which means you’re going to have other people doing the service for you. So I think that’s the hardest part is stepping away from that and not getting. Getting out of the work. You know, really, I only come in for the most part when there are problems that people can’t solve. People get stuck or, you know, there’s like a grumpy client or something, and it just needs to. The apology needs to come from the top or whatever, which is rare, but, you know, it happens. People make mistakes, But.

Christopher Small [00:14:24]:
But that is the hardest part when it comes to letting go. You know, you hire an attorney and then you micromanage them. You don’t let them do anything. They only get on the phone with the clients, you know, or you just never hire anybody because you’re never going to find anybody that’s as good or everybody’s too expensive or whatever, you know.

Darren Wurz [00:14:41]:
Right, right. And that’s not for everybody. And that’s okay. I mean, not everybody wants to be the CEO. Some people love being a practitioner, and that’s okay.

Christopher Small [00:14:50]:
Yeah. And by the way, you can also just be a solo practitioner your entire career. That’s totally okay as well. You know what? Because I. And I have a lot of conversations with law firm owners. What we. What I always say is, it’s okay, whatever you want to do, but you need to actually just take the time and be honest with yourself about what you want, so you’re not chasing something that other people think you need, or your spouse thinks you need, or the other attorneys that you hang out, whoever it is, you really just got to be honest with yourself or you’re never really going to find that. That sort of, like, quiet place where everything is going well, you know?

Darren Wurz [00:15:33]:
Right, right. You’re always adapting because the world’s always changing. Let’s talk for a minute about being a boss. Right? Because that’s a different skill set. And some people are, I think, naturally okay at doing it. Maybe there’s some natural giftedness towards being a leader, but there are some people that are really bad at it. What was your experience? Was it something you had to learn to be better at? Did you have any interesting stumbles along the way to help becoming a boss and learning how to manage people?

Christopher Small [00:16:11]:
Oh, I mean, you know, I. I have hired and fired many people, had many people quit. You know, I have hired people and been like, what was I thinking when I did this? This is like the worst. Or also, you know, when people leave and I go, I totally messed that situation up and didn’t give them a. An opportunity to. To win. You know, I think leadership and management are sort of two different sides of a. Of the coin of being a boss, and they’re both really hard to learn, and you have to be super intentional about it.

Christopher Small [00:16:50]:
You know, I think from a le. I’ll say, like, from a leadership standpoint, for me, like, I played sports, like, my whole life, so you. You have opportunities there to kind of be a leader sometimes, you know, like, depending on, you know, what you’re doing. But, like, I, I’ve had opportunities to sort of, like, have people like, hey, come with me, you know, kind of a thing. The management stuff, though, is, I think, something that you only learn, like, trial by fire. Even if you go to, I don’t know, grad school and get an MBA or whatever, the first time you have someone that’s like, in your office, like, what should I do? You know? Or how do I know if I’m doing a good job? Like, that’s hard. That’s hard to figure. How, how long of a leash do you give somebody? You know, when do you fire somebody? When are you mad at them? Or when do you, you know, when do you give them more time, you know? Yeah, and I think that that just gets.

Christopher Small [00:17:47]:
That just takes practice, and it’s just ever evolving. And most of the time you learn when you. What I always try to do when something. Whenever something happens that is an outcome that I don’t like, I really try to say, okay, What. What can I do differently in the future to not have that happen again? You know? Like, is there anything in my power that I could do to make that better? Yeah, a lot of it comes from hiring and selecting who you’re gonna bring on your team. But, you know, I’ll give you an example of something I did right, I think.

Darren Wurz [00:18:21]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:18:22]:
So hiring attorneys is really hard for me because I like to give them a lot of autonomy, but I want them to follow my systems because my systems are really good. Okay.

Darren Wurz [00:18:35]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:18:36]:
So there’s like, this. You know, what’s the Goldilocks, Right? So it’s like there’s, like this too hot. There’s just too cold. There’s like, this just. Right, okay. Too hot is like, if they have too much experience, they come in and they don’t want to do your stuff. Like, I’ve been doing it this way for whatever, and it’s like, no, just try it. My way.

Christopher Small [00:18:56]:
Too cold, though, is like, if you get. I’ve had people come in that are super, super young up, and. And they just don’t know how to be an attorney yet. And. And that’s also. That’s also hard, you know, so there’s, like, this middle ground of, like, you know, been practicing for a few years, confidence of, like, just being out there in the world, but also not like, they’re like. They’re. You know, poop doesn’t stink, and they can do whatever they want, you know, But I’ll tell you this.

Christopher Small [00:19:27]:
But there’s. But there’s. But there’s room for everything. So I hired a guy who was fresh out of law school. He just was, like, spunky, you know, like, you know, energetic. And I’m like, okay, we can do this. And he’s been with me now for, like, probably. Probably about 18 months or so.

Christopher Small [00:19:46]:
But there was a time in the middle where I was like, he’s not gonna get this, you know, because he’s doing sales calls and stuff, too, and just like, really kind of on the struggle bus. And. And I. I had to try to figure out, like, why. Why is this? Does he just not know what he’s talking about? No, that’s not. That wasn’t the case for him. I was confident that he understood, you know, like, the law and can diagnose people’s problems and stuff. But it’s a confidence thing because he’s so young, you know, so it’s like having these conversations.

Christopher Small [00:20:17]:
And so then I had to say, like, all right, what are we going to do about this? And do I fire him? Do I try to pump him up? Do I. How do I give him just some more time and see what happens? It’s like you have all these different options and you’re just like. There’s not, it’s not clear what the right thing to do is. But what I did was I took his calls down a little bit and I just told him there’s no pressure. I’m not going to be really judging your sales call volume, period. You’re going to do sort of so few that it’s not going to matter if you sign anybody up or not. So there’s no pressure. And then you can still do legal work.

Christopher Small [00:20:59]:
There’s plenty of, like, stuff to do, you know, on the, on the side, and then hopefully your con, you know, And I told him it’s a confidence problem. He just needs to get. He just needs to get it.

Darren Wurz [00:21:10]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:21:10]:
And as his sales numbers go up, I told him, I’ll give you more calls, like, as you’re. Because I. We track all this, all that stuff, and, and this was probably like three months ago, and he’s just like turned a corner and just, just crushing it right now. And I was like, okay, this is, this is great. So that’s a really long story, though, about the difficulty of managing people is real.

Darren Wurz [00:21:36]:
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it’s, it’s so interesting. We all have very different perceptions of reality. You know, I may, I may see an employee struggle with something, but the fact may be that I wasn’t clear. I may have thought I was super clear in explaining something and providing detail, all the details they needed, but to them, it may have been complete Greek. So I always have to take a step back and think, okay, did I communicate this correctly? And I think if we start there, we will do ourselves a great service. It’s very easy to, to go towards they messed up with something, but just to kind of take a step back and think, I love what you said.

Darren Wurz [00:22:26]:
Right. How could I maybe do things a little differently next time? That’s a, That’s a fantastic place to start. And there is kind of a hot, cold, mid range. You know, there’s. There’s micromanaging and then there’s like, laissez faire. There’s like, yeah, just, you know, but neither of those works. You’ve. You’ve got to be, as a leader, willing to get down in the weeds enough, but not so much that you are completely disempowering the people that are working for you.

Darren Wurz [00:22:57]:
That’s a tough balance, for sure.

Christopher Small [00:22:59]:
Yep. Yeah, we tend, when we tend to start, we tend to start hot. A lot of interaction and just sort of like loosen it up over time, you know. And then we also do have like a meeting cadence. Like we meet three times a week with the whole legal team and have opportunities to talk about stuff and, and like they, you know, ask questions and do stuff like that. So it. And I’ll tell you this too. The other thing that I think has helped me a lot, you know, is as a, as an owner of a law firm, is I’ve been pretty intentional about trying to like, systematize and, and sort of like codify my training, my onboarding and all this kind of stuff.

Darren Wurz [00:23:42]:
Yes.

Christopher Small [00:23:43]:
So I have a system for bringing new people in, and if doesn’t work well, then I tweak it for the next. So it’s just continuously getting better as opposed to every time somebody new comes in, it’s like, well, what are we going to do this time? You know, and you just kind of like work on those things and you just get better at them over time. But the struggle is real.

Darren Wurz [00:24:09]:
Yeah. Yeah. Let me ask you this. I forget what book I was reading. They were talking about how your gut is usually right, especially so. So with like testing anxiety, you know, they. They encourage people to go with your gut. Right.

Darren Wurz [00:24:28]:
Don’t overthink the problem. Because actually when the other side of your brain, the logical side of your brain starts to get involved and starts to get too involved and gets too. Too many calculations are happening, you get more prone to make mistakes. So in my limited experience of hiring, I have found that going with my gut really trumps all. I mean, within reason, Right. There are certain qualifications, but like when I’ve. When I’ve like really listened to my intuition and gone with what I felt was right, that has usually worked really well. Have you.

Darren Wurz [00:25:08]:
Have you felt like that?

Christopher Small [00:25:11]:
So the answer is yes. I can almost know right away when I’m going to. When someone is going to be hirable.

Darren Wurz [00:25:18]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:25:18]:
Like almost from jump, just from seeing a cover letter and resume, I can almost tell like, okay, this person’s going to be a good fit or a bad fit. But I try not to resist. Rely on that all the way.

Darren Wurz [00:25:34]:
Yeah, that’s. That’s good.

Christopher Small [00:25:35]:
Because it’s because I’m not good at it. Because it’s not because what I made this classic mistake. The, the reason why I was kind of looking at you like, oh, yeah, kind of was. Was it wasn’t really a gut feeling for me, but When I mean, I made my first couple hires, these were like admin positions or like a paralegal or something, let’s say, you know, that type of person, you really want them to be detail oriented. You know, you want them to be like, responsible, you want them to be smart. But those people are kind of boring, you know, and they’re not always a great interview. And so like the first two people I hired, you know, they were like, they came in and they were gregarious and like, they were like, you know, sort of like they got along with me well. And I was like, this is going to be awesome.

Christopher Small [00:26:20]:
And then they came in and they were a train wreck. And I was like, yes. Oh yeah. It’s because they were not actually was suited for the position at all.

Darren Wurz [00:26:26]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:26:27]:
So. So I, I actually don’t really do this much anymore, but I started doing like a disc profile to just say, like, this person needs to match up with the. Their disc has to match up with the position for me to say yes to them. Then I can see if I like them. Right.

Darren Wurz [00:26:44]:
Yes.

Christopher Small [00:26:45]:
The other thing I do too now is my team talks to everybody before we hire somebody. And they do a good job of telling me, you know, most of the time by the by, by the time it gets to them, they have already like passed most of my screening. But there have been times where they were like, you know, like, they say it nicely, these things. Like. Oh, they just, they really didn’t bring a lot of energy to the, to the, to the conversation. It’s kind of their way of saying, like, they’re not going to fit in around here.

Darren Wurz [00:27:18]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:27:18]:
And I like to listen to that, you know.

Darren Wurz [00:27:22]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:27:22]:
And I’ll tell you this, this is probably not HR approved. This is for an attorney that I was going to hire recently and I just could not decide what to do.

Darren Wurz [00:27:32]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:27:32]:
I had her talk to my wife and then I was like. Because she, my wife is like, really? She’s like intuitive, she’s super smart and so. And I trust her opinion. You know, she’s obviously not taught hiring for the legal. She also knows the vibe of the office and all that kind of stuff.

Darren Wurz [00:27:48]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:27:49]:
And. And I was like, okay, go talk to her. And then like, tell me your thoughts. And her thoughts were the same as the team. And I was like, interesting. Well, that’s good feedback, you know, so.

Darren Wurz [00:27:59]:
Yeah, you got to figure out what works well for you. I love having the team have some say because culture is important. But I, I’ve had, I had an experience where I’ve had an experience where someone interviewed fantastically. Like, they were on resume. They were just amazing. Their answers to interview questions were fantastic. They were spot on. But something in my gut said no.

Darren Wurz [00:28:27]:
And I was about to not listen to my gut, but actually the person backed out. I sent them an offer, and, and they backed out. And I was like, I was relieved.

Christopher Small [00:28:37]:
Yeah.

Darren Wurz [00:28:38]:
I was like. And then I was like, you know what? I’m so glad. I should. I’m gonna listen to my gut from now on. Keep listening. Now, when I say gut, I do have. I, what I’ve done usually is I have a recruiting company that will go and do all the profiling and interview hundreds of people. Right.

Darren Wurz [00:28:56]:
And give me then, like three or four. And then among the top three or four, that’s where I’m going with my gut. You know what I mean?

Christopher Small [00:29:03]:
Your story, though, reminds me an, an exact experience that I had, though. So I, I, I, I agree with you 100 when it comes to that, in that, you know, I interviewed somebody and they were this, this, this was for an attorney position. This was a, A while ago. But she was great on paper, and she was, you know, the team liked her, but still, I was like, I don’t think she was kind of coming from, like, a bigger type of a firm. Those are always kind of weird things too, when you’re switching.

Darren Wurz [00:29:30]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:29:31]:
Kind of these workspaces. And I was like, man, I just don’t, I just don’t know. And same thing happened to me, though. I offer her the job, and then she said no. And I was like, you know, that’s good. That’s good. Because you’re right, though. Yep.

Christopher Small [00:29:46]:
100%. Yeah. So that’s, that’s, yeah. You do need to trust your gut when it comes to those type of things. But you do want to. And here’s the. I’ll tell you my secret for hiring attorneys that I’ve found works really well.

Darren Wurz [00:29:57]:
Yeah, please.

Christopher Small [00:29:58]:
Because the hard thing is, like, you’re using a search firm kind of reminded me of this. I’ve never used a search firm or recruiting service or anything like that, because it’s like the type of person I’m looking for. I, they’re not going to, I don’t think, fall really into a recruiting services space.

Darren Wurz [00:30:22]:
Okay.

Christopher Small [00:30:22]:
Weirdly, like, you know, we’re, we have four attorneys. We’re not, we’re not like, big, you know, the people that are coming in, I want them to be of a level where they’re not probably even looking at a recruiting service. You know, we’re talking about, like, three to five years of experience type of a thing. So what I do is. And I’m actually. I’m gonna just have this thing going on all the time. So what I do, I have LinkedIn. I’ve had a lot of good experience with LinkedIn lately.

Darren Wurz [00:30:49]:
Okay.

Christopher Small [00:30:50]:
So I’ll just do a LinkedIn ad, and I’ll. I’ll run it for 10 bucks a day, and I’ll. I will just let it run forever.

Darren Wurz [00:30:59]:
Okay.

Christopher Small [00:31:00]:
And I’m really just. You’ll get. You’ll get people in. You know, you’ll get people in, and they. They won’t be good. They won’t be good. They won’t be good. Yeah, but then one comes in that’s good, and you’re like, you just snap.

Christopher Small [00:31:11]:
You snatch them up, you know, because they’re probably coming from a similar type of a. A situation. Maybe they’re just, like, not making enough money. Maybe their boss sucks. Maybe they just want to change the scenery or something. Those. And those are. Those are just, I think, a little harder to find, and I’ve had a lot of success with that.

Christopher Small [00:31:29]:
The key, though, is you have to start looking, like, way before you. You really want to hire somebody. And even for me, keep it going, because you can still, if you get a couple of good people in, you can literally just tell them, like, look, this is not a good time. I really. I like what you have. Like, I’m. I will reach out to you in the future if we ever have something going on. And, you know, you may be in a great spot, and that’s totally cool, but you can sort of build up, like, a little bit of a bench there and.

Darren Wurz [00:31:55]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:31:56]:
And have that coming in. But that. That’s been my sort of key to success.

Darren Wurz [00:32:03]:
Yeah, that’s. That’s great. That’s a great tip on using LinkedIn. And if you have that discipline to be able to look at. Like, my problem is I look at the first one and I’m like, oh, they look pretty good. So I need someone who can be the top filter for me.

Christopher Small [00:32:18]:
Right? For sure. For sure.

Darren Wurz [00:32:21]:
Otherwise it’s like, yeah, it’s overwhelmed.

Christopher Small [00:32:24]:
Yeah. And this is only for attorneys, so for. For, you know, if I’m hiring for a paralegal or for, like, an admin or something like you. You’ll get hundreds of responses. And there are a lot of qualified people. I still don’t use a recruiting service for them. That’s. I don’t know why.

Christopher Small [00:32:38]:
I don’t.

Darren Wurz [00:32:39]:
I just Well, I think, I think using at least some kind of personality assessment.

Christopher Small [00:32:44]:
Yeah.

Darren Wurz [00:32:44]:
Is, is really, really good, really critical. So you may not use the, the recruiting firm, but having some tools like that, because, yeah, the interview doesn’t tell you really anything. The resume doesn’t tell you anything. You know, I’m investing in people. I need to know who the people, who the people are, who the person is, if you’re a good person. And this is the other thing, too. I, I. When someone’s really excited about working with me, that’s who I want.

Darren Wurz [00:33:10]:
Because I can’t teach that. Right. If you’re really pumped about what we’re building here and you really just are jazzed up about our business, then, yeah, I want you. Right. I can teach you everything else.

Christopher Small [00:33:21]:
I agree. I agree. Look, estate planning is not rocket science. You know, accounting is not rocket science. You need to learn some rules. Like, it’s maybe kind of complicated at the beginning, but it’s figureoutable, you know? But if you’re lazy, well, that’s hard to change, you know?

Darren Wurz [00:33:38]:
Right.

Christopher Small [00:33:39]:
So if nobody likes you, that’s hard to change.

Darren Wurz [00:33:42]:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we’ve, we’re way over time, but I have a couple more questions. I want to get in here.

Christopher Small [00:33:49]:
I got nowhere. I have nowhere to go.

Darren Wurz [00:33:51]:
It’s been a great conversation. I want to ask you this. This is, I recently read Simon Sinek’s book Start with why, and you know, we’re supposed to have a vision for our business, Right. And we start with that why question. But then he actually, he talks about when you move forward into being more of an entrepreneur, and let’s say you have multiple businesses, it’s more about your personal why.

Christopher Small [00:34:16]:
Yeah.

Darren Wurz [00:34:16]:
And what’s your, what’s your thing? So I’m curious for you. Have you, have you thought about that? Have you started to develop that for yourself, like, individually? Apart from your identity in each of these businesses, what’s your own why?

Christopher Small [00:34:32]:
Yeah, I think for me, look, my why is I want to do things that I enjoy doing with people that I enjoy doing them with, and I want to make some money at the same time. Okay. I want to do all of these things.

Darren Wurz [00:34:47]:
Yeah, yeah.

Christopher Small [00:34:48]:
For me, like this, this, you know, I was just texting my wife the other day. Like, I’m like, in the middle of these. They’re not system overhauls for the, for the accounting firm, but as more people, you know, when you have a new business, things break as you grow. That’s just like, part of the process. You sort of have to Retool things and fix them. And you know, I, I, so I was like, I’m really busy. And she’s like, yeah, no, it’s too bad. I was like, no, this is great.

Christopher Small [00:35:19]:
Like, I love doing this stuff. It’s sort of like a, it’s like a big jigsaw puzzle and the pieces are always changing and you also don’t have the picture and you don’t. So you’re just like trying to put these things together, right?

Darren Wurz [00:35:29]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:35:30]:
So, so, you know, I, we have five kids to get with the blended family. We have five kids and yeah. And so, you know, to be able to do whatever I want, whenever I want, work on the things that I love and you know, keep me interested and exciting, that’s really my, why I, I here’s the other thing too. I really love like the service based business. Like giving people a good service feels really good.

Darren Wurz [00:35:58]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:36:00]:
Like one of the reasons we, I chose estate planning was because it’s like literally the only area of the law where people come to you in a good mood and they leave in a good mood. Like they, they very rarely come to you in some kind of crisis. You know, they’re like, I have kids, I want to protect them. You know, we have some money. I want to make sure it goes where it’s supposed to go. Like, are you thinking about when you die? Yeah, kind of. But it’s not the same. You know, you’re not sad when you’re, when we are talking.

Christopher Small [00:36:25]:
You know, you have this sort of like this, you’re looking into the future. You’re like creating legacy and you know, protecting your family and stuff like that. And you know, there’s something that’s really like feels really good about that. So that’s kind of my why, you know, it changes over time on what, yeah, that actually looks like in real life because sometimes you think like, oh, I don’t wanna, I just want to retire, I don’t want to work. And you do that for like a minute. You’re like, I’m bored, you know, like really bored. And I don’t. And I actually really did like doing that stuff I was doing, you know, where you think like, I want to just have a place at the beach.

Christopher Small [00:37:02]:
And then you’re like, no, just not as fun as I thought it was going to be, you know, so, so those kind of things evolve. But really it does evolve. It does always sort of come back to, you know, just taking advantage of, of life, you know, taking action, trying things and, and you know, just Having some fun along the way as well.

Darren Wurz [00:37:28]:
Yeah, definitely. And it is always evolving. Life is always changing. A lot of people do. They retire and then they’re bored. 85% of business owners who sell their businesses regret the decision because then they kind of lose that sense of purpose. Now, my dad is perfectly happy to be in Florida on a beach, riding his motorcycle and that he doesn’t need anything more. He’s perfectly happy doing that.

Darren Wurz [00:37:58]:
But that doesn’t work for everybody, so you have to figure out what it is for you.

Christopher Small [00:38:03]:
So one more thing about that, though, that I think is really important is you really need to understand what you want to do from a personal perspective, because your business should evolve and grow to serve your personal needs.

Darren Wurz [00:38:18]:
Yes.

Christopher Small [00:38:19]:
And. And that’s where people get really stuck, you know, Like. Yeah, I was talking to a guy and he’s like, you know, I. I want to make like 300k a year. I want to work like 15 hours a week, and I want to play video games rest of the time because he’s like, in his late 20s, early 30s, but so he’s, you know, he’s just not. He’s not grown up yet, which is fine. But I’m like, look, you can do that, you know, because then he’s like, let’s run some ads. Let’s do some stuff.

Christopher Small [00:38:46]:
And I’m like, you don’t really. Let’s build a team. I’m like, to bring 300k in it. Put 300k in your pocket. You don’t need that much to do that, you know? Yeah, you need a good source of leads, but that’s not, you know, that’s. That’s nothing. You know, like, when we’re talking about making that much money over the course of a year, you could definitely do that, you know, so. Yeah, that’s.

Christopher Small [00:39:14]:
That’s. The important part is always, whenever I talk to people, the first exercise is always, what does your perfect life look like? And then your build, your business builds into that, you know?

Darren Wurz [00:39:24]:
Yeah. Otherwise you’ll be unhappy 100%. Yes. And. And, you know, you only get one shot at this life, so let’s. Let’s be happy. Right? Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:39:32]:
People are like, look, you want to scale this. This law firm up? I’m like, you know what? I. I. Not really. I don’t really want to.

Darren Wurz [00:39:39]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:39:39]:
You know, because a lot of. A lot more moving parts with the law firm than with the accounting firm in particular. Like, for example, it’s like, I really love it. The. This part’s fun, but this is a really good size. You know, maybe add a couple people over time. But I’m not trying to go, like, huge, you know, just not what I want to do.

Darren Wurz [00:39:58]:
I love that you mentioned that, because that ties into the book we’re currently reading in our book club, which is the Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel. And he says the biggest trick in life is to get the goalpost to stop moving. To know when enough is enough, to know at what level you are satisfied and not to want more. And my grandmother used to say something very similar, which is, the trick in life is not getting what you want. It’s wanting it after you get it. Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:40:29]:
Yes.

Darren Wurz [00:40:30]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:40:31]:
I think it’s hard, though, not to move those goalposts. I think. I think what’s key, though, is the goalposts need to be moving in relation to the things that make you happy or. Or that fulfill you. Not necessarily make you happy even, but not based on somebody else moving the goalposts for you, you know, so I wouldn’t be like, oh, Darren made 2 million this year. Now I got to make 2 million. That’s like the worst goalpost move that you can make, right? You know, you may get to a million and then go, well, gosh, now that we’re here, you know, maybe we can do XYZ a little differently or maybe, you know, we can do something that is just sort of like, part of what you want to do. Does that make sense? Because it’s hard if you’re static.

Christopher Small [00:41:18]:
You. It’s fun to be chasing something, you know, you just. You just want to be doing it for the right reasons or just because it’s fun, too.

Darren Wurz [00:41:27]:
Yeah. And I think we often get caught up in what we think we’re supposed to want.

Christopher Small [00:41:31]:
Yeah.

Darren Wurz [00:41:32]:
Like, I should want a really nice car or something like that. And nothing wrong with that, Right? If you want a really nice car, great. Go for it. But you got to know, like, does that really speak to me? Right. Is that really going to be fulfilling for me? It’s kind of like, well, I could drive a nicer car. It really wouldn’t. It wouldn’t move the needle on being happier necessarily. It actually would make me more.

Darren Wurz [00:41:56]:
Would make me less happy to have larger payment. You know what I mean? Or something like that. So where’s the happiness? Right? Where is that for sure?

Christopher Small [00:42:05]:
Yeah. I mean, look, I don’t. I’m not a car guy either. I don’t even. I just tell my wife, like, you. You know, you figure out how to spend the money like the game, like the. The. The.

Christopher Small [00:42:15]:
Like having. Putting something out there and having somebody, like, respond to you is like the coolest feeling in the world, you know, Having a new attorney come on, teaching them how to, like, sell, and then have them sign someone up and, like, see how ex, like, excited they are. That’s super fun. So that. That type of stuff is the type of stuff I like, you know? Do I mean, is making money fun? Yeah, it’s super fun. You know, it’s like, who people are lying to you. If they said money’s not cool, it’s great. It’s fantastic.

Christopher Small [00:42:48]:
You know? But when you’re chasing other people’s stuff, that’s when it becomes.

Darren Wurz [00:42:52]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:42:52]:
Much, much less fun, you know?

Darren Wurz [00:42:54]:
Indeed. Indeed. Chris, I’m curious. Are there any really great books that you’re reading right now that you. That you’re loving?

Christopher Small [00:43:03]:
I gotta be honest with you. I have not been reading much lately other than sort of circling back on stuff that I’ve read in the past. I have read so much, though, in the past. Like, I am a voracious reader and I love reading, but. And I love reading business books. Psychology of Money is, like, one of my favorite books. I think I’ve read it at least three times, so it’s like. It’s a.

Christopher Small [00:43:26]:
It’s such a good book.

Darren Wurz [00:43:28]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:43:28]:
But what I have found with a lot of the new stuff that’s coming out is it’s sort of like a regurgitation of another book that’s just better, you know?

Darren Wurz [00:43:39]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:43:39]:
And I’ve. I’m trying to find stuff, but I’m just really having a hard time coming across anything that is. That kind of like, grabs my attention, you know? So I’m. I have not been reading much lately. I have a ton of book. I love to read, man, but I just haven’t found anything super good lately.

Darren Wurz [00:44:05]:
That’s okay. Well, I’m glad to hear that you’ve. You’ve read the Psychology of Money and enjoyed it. Would love to have you. It’s a great book. Yeah, it’s. It’s really, you know, it’s not rocket science, but I just. Morgan Housel has such a really unique way of making you think about certain things and reflect on them.

Darren Wurz [00:44:23]:
It’s like, I’ve heard these things before, but he makes you look at them in a new light. And that’s the really powerful thing. Some. Some of our members in the book club have never read it and are, like, blown away. They’re like, this is fantastic. How do I teach my Kids, this stuff. How do I get them to read this?

Christopher Small [00:44:40]:
For sure. Yep. It’s such a great book. But, you know, like, there’s just classics that.

Darren Wurz [00:44:45]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:44:46]:
That, you know, it’s so hard to. To. Because there’s just. Here’s the other thing, too. And again, this is not like a. This is not true, but I’m going to say it. Okay. So just keep that in mind.

Christopher Small [00:44:58]:
I feel like I’ve kind of evolved to a place now with my business where I know the things that I. I’m need to do.

Darren Wurz [00:45:07]:
Yeah.

Christopher Small [00:45:08]:
I just don’t need as much, like, motivation. I don’t need as much training. I don’t like, you know, like we talked about at the very beginning, it’s not rocket science to start and grow a successful business when you know what you’re supposed to do. The key is just to do it, you know? So, like, I. My action button over the course of all these years is just so much stronger than it used to be to where now I don’t need to listen to Grant Cardone or something, you know, like, I’m just go to work. I don’t need to find the next book to, like, tell me about, you know, and the Psychology of Money is not like that. It’s more. It’s like.

Christopher Small [00:45:46]:
Yeah, it’s more like Principles and Foundations of Money. It’s like, that’s what makes it so great. But some of these other books are just like, I don’t need that motivation anymore. It doesn’t. I get it. You know, like, I’m convinced you’re looking.

Darren Wurz [00:45:59]:
For the next great read. Okay.

Christopher Small [00:46:01]:
And. Yeah, and I’ll tell you what I’m really looking for, too, that I’m just not sure about right now is I know I need more skills. I know that I can be better, but I’m not really sure, like, what that is yet. Like, I haven’t. Does that make sense?

Darren Wurz [00:46:14]:
The deeper. The deeper level? What’s the next level? Yeah. Beyond the fundamentals of business and leadership. What’s. Yeah, yeah, I get you. Yeah, I get you.

Christopher Small [00:46:24]:
There. Tricky.

Darren Wurz [00:46:28]:
Cool stuff. Well, Chris, it’s been absolutely fun talking with you. If you’re a law firm out there, need a better bookkeeper. Accounting system. Check Chris out. Chris, where can people go to learn more about you?

Christopher Small [00:46:42]:
Yeah. Big Bird Accounting is the name of our business. I literally just was, like, looking for a URL that had the dot com with it and was just, like, trying different animals and stuff. So. Big Bird, seriously, there’s just no. There’s no. I just thought it was a great. I thought it was a fun like quirky little name.

Christopher Small [00:46:57]:
But if you go to bigbirdaccounting.com I mean that’s it. So you know, like I said, we do really service law firm owners exclusively for obvious reasons. Happy to chat with anybody that’s curious about getting help or frustrated with their their current person. Happy to chat with you.

Darren Wurz [00:47:18]:
Sounds good. Well, thanks so much, Chris.

Christopher Small [00:47:20]:
Yeah, I had a blast.

Darren Wurz [00:47:22]:
All right, if you want to learn more about Christopher Small and how Big Bird Accounting can help your law firm clean up its books, check the show notes for the links. Chris’s journey is a perfect example of why having the right team around you is critical. A bookkeeper or tax strategist isn’t just there to file paperwork. They can help you maximize profits, reduce liabilities, and create financial clarity. But you know, that’s just one piece of the puzzle. You may already have an investment advisor, a bookkeeper or tax person, and maybe even a business coach. But here’s the big question. Who is keeping them all on the same page? Who is looking at the big picture and making sure every decision is aligned with your long term success? That’s what we do here at the Lawyer Millionaire Founders Network.

Darren Wurz [00:48:11]:
We help law firm owners integrate business strategy, financial planning, and long term wealth creation. If you’re ready to take control and make sure every piece of your financial plan is working together, jump on a call with me to learn more. The link is in the Show Notes. Well, that’s a wrap for this episode of the Lawyer Millionaire. Remember, your law firm should be an asset, not just a job. Take control, build wealth and create the future you do deserve. See you next time.

Outro [00:48:49]:
Thank you for listening to the Lawyer Millionaire. Click the Follow button below to be notified when new episodes become available. This content has been made available for informational and educational purposes only. This content is not intended to represent investing or tax advice. Always seek the advice of a qualified investment or tax advisor with any questions you may have regarding your own financial circumstances.

From Lawyer to Multi Business Owner: Christopher Small’s Entrepreneurial Journey (Ep. 105)